Original on Youtube: #43 NFTYQ Show ft. Carlini8, NFT Market Talk, Founding Purrnelopes and NFTBoxes
by LADZ City
NFTYQ sits down w/ Carlini8 to discuss his journey in NFTs, founding Purrnelopes and NFTBoxes.
This transcript is computer generated and has not been proofread.
Speakers: Carlini8 (77%), NFTYQ (23%)
Nothing on the show is meant as financial advice and please do your own research.
All right, good morning. Good evening and a real good night. Here from the NFTYQ show welcome. And we are interviewing founders, leaders and builders in the non fungible token industry. Today I'm sitting with a fellow 2017 degen Carlini to discuss what he's seeing in the current NFT markets. CO founding NFT boxes, updates on Purrnelope's Country Club and much more real good night. Carlini. How you doing here today? My man, man, we are interviewing founders leaders.
Hey, I am great, thanks. So tired. It's just God when He just called Midnight here. But very happy to be here chatting to you. And you know, just talking about the good old days.
It was it was the good old days, man. I want to say a quick shout out to take bow as well, for getting this set up. I know you're supposed to do this episode a couple of times, man. So thank you for for coming in. I know we were trying to get it together two weeks ago, maybe a week ago and and things kind of, you know, got away from us. But that happens in the NFT Space, man. So I appreciate it.
Yeah, cool. I was just happy that it could happen. I was I was looking forward to then said it couldn't. But yeah, let's, let's get into it.
100%. So we'll kind of get into your background here before. Before we get started. I did want to know I had a project on a couple weeks ago, that was a very pet focus there. It was like cat VR or cat AR project. And I had to ask the founder if they were either a cat or a dog lover? You know, you got Purrnelope's here. Are you a cat person? Are you a dog person?
Well, I have three cats. And no dogs. So I guess that's, that's the they're just easy. Dogs are hush.
Dogs, I will give you that they're a little bit needy, as they say. So let's get started. Man, I want to I want to touch on your background a little bit before the 2017 timeframe. Obviously, that's going to be a big portion of our discussion. I think as it relates to the markets today. I think a lot of people can learn some things that we went through in those experiences. But before 2017, what were you doing as an individual as a person, besides being a cat owner?
So I was in I was in crypto, I was mainly drawn in, by Ethereum, I did a little bit of Bitcoin mining. I'm not entirely sure of the year all I know, it was my old house that I was in 2014 2015. So remember about a two week period or a mind a little bit. And then I've still got the PC, but that hard drive has been wiped so many times as long gone. I just told myself, it wouldn't have been much even at the top just so I feel better. Then I just loved Ethereum I love getting rid of the middleman. So I know a lot of people you know they get into crypto to down down with the banks or whatever. But for me, it was the NFT meme, it was the utility I love that stuff was actually happening, you could actually talk about something that was going to happen in the future. So I bought you know a little bit of Bitcoin in maybe 2015. A bit more crypto in 2016. I think that's when I first picked up ETH even more in 17 and then straight into NFTs. But what I was doing workwise was I was a professional gambler. So I was looking for it started out with something called match betting where you kind of gamble on both sides of a bet. So a tennis game is a good example you bet on one player or the other player but you play the odds so that no matter what happens, you profit and it kind of snowballed into casino roulette. slots, just making sure that I was always playing with an edge. And yet for five years, that was my full time job.
I've talked with a lot of people on my podcast throughout the time and although everyone kind of has a interesting background, I would say like the most common are gamblers. Is there a reason why there's a lot of gamblers in the crypto space?
I think we all know we're in one big casino here, but when when you gamble full time there's a there's a certain mentality or you need you need to be okay with losses. And I think that's something right now we're going to see quite a lot as the markets are dipping right now, the people who stay are most likely already, you know, okay with managing these sorts of markets. And when you when you get used to losing lots and winning lots and huge swings, it makes it a little easier. We're already seeing Twitter quite be quite a lot quieter than say a month or two ago. So I think some people that maybe couldn't handle the swings have already already stopped looking at their phones so
much. What are you doing in a market like this? When it when it comes to maybe a little bit quieter on Twitter, of course, from from, I guess a lot of everyone but what are your day to day changes like between a bear market and a bull market?
Put them a thumbs together, my fingers are making a triangle saying building. In reality, the day to day work, you know, I work on Purrnelope's Country Club that's just everyday bear market bull market, what I have to do probably changes. So I do have to adapt to the market conditions for what we do for the community or what sort of information we put out there my personal degening I guess just fit I haven't really mentored in a while. aborts, I guess the last thing I really did was the bored apes land drop.
What do you make of that?
I hope how long we got. I guess I guess my view is they wanted to do a different type of drop, couldn't figure it out. And then just went for a guest wall and made up made up this wave system, which I actually think is genius for other people that aren't bored apes. I think it's a great system for say, Me to use, but they already knew that wave one it was selling out because they already had all the numbers. They knew how many KY seed so I think they just couldn't figure out how to do a Dutch in ape where the ape was going to arrive like an hour after it was sent. Said, Okay, get rid of that. For whatever reason we have to do this sale in April. It just felt like a rushed get it out joke to me.
Yeah, I was listening to a podcast you were doing recently. And you were talking about I don't care whether it was a Dutch auction for 1000 ETH the Dutch, the Dutch auction should have happened to allow for an accurate market price. And they didn't do that. And that's what led to this kind of crazy movement that you kind of saw. Or I guess event that you kind of saw with the other deeds slant.
Yeah, the longest the longest Guess who we've ever seen?
Yeah. Any other thoughts on a token? I don't want to spend a whole rabbit hole discussion, but I wanted to get your thoughts on ape and where it's at right now.
The thing I like the most about it the most interesting thing just looking at it from a photo, I do hold ape but I you know, I'm just too busy to really dig deep into everything, all the proposals and everything that they're suggesting. So I just, I just pick someone and allocate, allocate my votes to them. But the the part that interests me, is this the first time we've seen a DAO? Same No, no. Normally what a DAO means is team team suggests something DAO says yes. The Apes are fighting back. They're not happy that I guess the team is saying nothing, right? Because the team aren't the one making the proposals. It's it's the board members or their companies. And the proposals most mostly have been subpar. So it was nice to see, I guess a more real Tao like they're really actually working on it.
Yeah. Now you guys have your token that you've mentioned multiple times on a lot of the blog posts a lot of the Twitter posts that you guys have mentioned on your roadmap as well. So I know a DAO and all these pieces that kind of come with a decentralized community are important. So anything you can take from what happened with ape and they're down to what you're doing with with Purrnelope Or sorry, Purrnelope's
well as is slightly different because I don't think the bored apes model work for many projects. I think it works for them because they are bored apes, but I've gone for a daily yield for my token, because that all that does is it continuously out adds value to our NFT as we then build on the token, whereas bored apes have said, this token is completely separate. We're going to work on bored apes and the board who we, you know, we found and they're all I don't know how these people have time to work on the board, because you know, co founder of Reddit who then invested 100 mil in moon birds and all of this stuff, and then founder of amoica, and you know, all of these high ranking people in the space. They're going to be leading ape. It does make it more of a DAO and maybe that's why we haven't seen why we've seen the rejections it's not just Yes, yes, yes. Because they're thinking right, this isn't the team. But that's, that's not the route I'm taking, I think, I think that fails for most projects. So I've avoided that.
You seem to have a good mind for looking at these different tokenomics issues. Do you think their token distribution was something that you would do differently? Or how did you make of the dropping the initial ape coin to the holders of ape in the, I guess, percentage that they did, but just in general, that token distribution? How do you think it went?
I think it depends on what the DAO do. Because then they're proposing staking at the moment. And I don't know if you've seen Cobis right up on staking where have we gone from staking meaning something to it effectively been? Lock it up. So price goes up. So the proposal of staking by the DAO that did get voted down, but I haven't kept up the last few weeks, they may have slipped an amended version through is pretty much if you don't Stake your token, you are losing value because everyone else is earning new token. If everyone stakes and it just sits there and they get more token, your token has been devalued, unless you stake and if you stake you're not really everyone thinks, oh I'm earning APE, because I'm staking but in reality what's actually happening is you're just not losing value. You're everyone is exactly if everyone stakes everyone's got more ape, but that's the problem everyone has more ape so you're not actually more well off you might as well just double it so because the staking isn't really for anything I don't particularly like the route they're taking
Alright, so I don't want to make it too far down bored a rabbit hole I'm sure there's other places you guys can go for that. So let's go back a little bit to 2017 I've got a little guy here. That's that I like to bring up from time to time not too much. But I've got my man here a little crypto kitty action so I want to get your thoughts man on being early when it when it came to NFTs I know there were some NFTs beforehand. I was never involved on my first run in with non fungible tokens was definitely dapper labs crypto kitties, but tell me your experience there in 2017 and maybe before then with NFTs
you've put me in a tough spot because I say crypto kitties so much that the Purrnelope community have almost a drinking game built around it whenever I say take a shot whenever I whenever I say it they drink so yeah, the were the worst stuff before obviously but in my opinion, crypto kitties was the first real community around an NFT projects I know that the were people around different projects that was there was a couple of art projects and obviously there was punks but when you go back and look at punks discord, it was tiny at the time really. In comparison, and I I put a tweet out one point maybe about half a year ago at this point. Crypto kitties 2017 December. They had the same amount of posts in their discord as the punks discord from its inception in I think it was June 2017 until 2021 So that's it was something along the lines of three and a half years it took punks to do what the first month of crypto kitties discord editing. Discord posting, sorry, which just shows the skit is really hard to to get across to people how big it was because I guess I take it back to the old days in gaming where Right now, if you want to play a game, you know, there are so many options, you open up steam and everyone's got 200 games they've bought, installed or not played. Whereas when I was a kid, if you bought a game, you played it because the there were not many options. And back then there was pretty much one NFT community that you could be in, get responses, actually chat about NFTs in real time. Like if you went to punks, discord and tried to talk it would take, you know, you'd have left your PC by the time you got a reply, whereas cryptokitties was, you know, by the time you've typed out your next sentence, there were 10 more posts. It was the place to be that month. So it was it was very eye opening of what Ethereum could do, I guess.
Could do and cannot do as well.
Yes, the first the funny thing about back then is when they say, you know, crypto kitties killed Ethereum. It took gas to levels that we saw as normal last year, like oh, it's down to 200 Not much is on. Whereas for cryptic kitties, it went from, you know, sub one to 100. And everyone freaked out, because because they couldn't do anything, when in reality, they could do something because the Ethereum didn't break. It was just too expensive. And I just I always find it funny, because, you know, back then, when it broke, it was maybe $50 for high end transaction. And people just people will send a Ethereum of now for 250 last year. So you know,
what in crypto kitties, I guess, like enlightened in your mind that this was actually going to be more than what it was at the time. Right? Like, of course, there were pictures on the screen. NFTs weren't really a thing again. During that time, I know. It's like a very trendy word. A lot of people even in the general space, no non maybe NFT as a term, but non fungible tokens as exists today. But back then there wasn't really the sight guys, there wasn't really this understanding what you know, hit for you What was that light bulb moment of seeing dapper labs creation on the screen.
It was it was playing an MMO RPG, but you were in your world. I know technically, when you when you were playing the game, and you were minting and you were selling you were doing it on the crypto kitties website. But because you weren't really in it, you know, if you download a game, you open it up or even even, you know, going way back when you'd play on Miniclip it was just so much so different when you're actually playing a game. It just didn't have that feeling of you were going somewhere else to do what you were doing. You were doing it exactly where you were. You owned these things, and you were selling them in real time, and you saw the balance go up. And obviously money is is a big driving force in this space. And it just the money felt like a leaderboard. I was making much more at the time gambling every day than I was, you know, I'd I remember aiming for an Ethereum a day breeding crypto Kitties and selling them. And at that point and Ethereum maybe four or $500 whereas probably doing free food. So this was at the start of December. I know it ran up. Yeah. It was quite a crazy December. So at one point it did hit one free. So it might be four or 500 pounds just because I'm in the UK. So that might be what I'm remembering. But like gambling I was doing free, free 4000 pounds EV in a day. But I wasn't drawn to do that. I was drawn to this game of breeding and selling cats. Because I was making money. But more fun, I guess. Yeah.
I also vividly remember because I was doing the Google Sheets thing too. I thought I was gonna be a billionaire breeding these cats. It didn't work out. Dapper labs I think still has some issues to work out even with a project like Top Shot which I saw in my research that you were a little bit involved in but it that I remember that being one of the first times I had the Ethereum of them not being real money effect either. I wasn't looking at it as hey, I'm trading a picture of a cat and trying to breed a picture of a cat for $500 I'm doing it with, you know, point five ETH or song or something like that I remember that vividly being my first not caring about the dollar amount, because it was on ETH. That was a Those are fun times when
that was the thing before that it was simply a token you bought, because you thought the price would go up. And you weren't doing anything with it right? You weren't earning Ethereum, whereas this was that's why that disconnect exists because in NFT or just you know, in, in defi, Summer, or just whenever you can use something to make more of it. You'll goals sometimes changed to making more of it rather than more dollars. Because if it can go up in price, and you can make more of it. Oh, great. That double double dipping the profit.
Yeah, we're gonna roll this into a conversation and move along the timeline. I could stay in 2017 for a while. But let's let's continue to move on. I think the probably the best way to kind of get a recap from then to now is probably to, you know, I could I could use dapper labs, maybe as a bridge here. So we can talk about, you know, how, you know, maybe why crypto kitties isn't as big today being one of those first projects and, you know, Top Shot kind of leading into this this next Bull Run. So I guess let me let me frame this question. I know I kind of talked out loud for this piece. But why don't you think crypto kitties is a bigger project today?
Well, for I guess, a similar reason that people are unhappy with Topshot. Because crypto kitties always had the goal of effectively. I mean, it wasn't their goal. But it was effectively a web 2 company in a web 3 space. And Top Shot is kind of a web two thing. It's it's a product they're offering you collecting cards on the blockchain while they there are a few moments, which is the change but that's what they're offering. They're trying to replicate the card collecting world. And that doesn't mean that you profits. I think Topshot would have done much better if all the other collections didn't exist, because people just have an absolutely inflated view of what should happen when you buy a good NFT the price should go up because it's good. And in reality, crypto kitties should now be a relic. It should be. This was the first ERC 721 It is what I call the first wave of adoption. It's it got in it was the first project ever to 100,000 unique users, which is still quite an insane number like very few have ever done. I think x infinity were the next to do it. And then it might have even been top shot. So I think it went dapper xe xe exists because of dapper they the team met in cryptokitties and then dapper again. So what they're what they're pretty good at doing is getting lots of people in. And that was always their goal. That was one of the issues with crypto kitty. Well, it was it was the supply and demand aspect. But they dapper I remember maybe middle of December somewhere did an article where they said we want we want there to be crypto kitties that are two to $3 and discord rioted. Yeah. And they said this from the start of Topshop, they said, Look, price has to be low. We need people to get in our goal is to bring people to their one of their one of the only companies who say our goal is to bring as many people to NFTs as we can. And then they do actions that try and do that. And then people don't like that because when you get loads of people in you actually need really cheap NFTs when all you're really after is profit. You're not too much of a fan.
This is a really cool conversation because I feel like people are having this combo now with Solana saying hey, you know, there's not gonna be a lot of gas fees here on this protocol. So we can do two to $3 NFTs. So here's the adoption, but how do you how do you merge these two thought processes of of you know, still being in web three, still having a small community that's looking for, you know, not to have their NFT or their asset completely diluted with trying to bring new people into the project? Is there a way do that at scale? Or is it just two that are never going to work together?
I think that is a way to do it. But I do think you need the demand you, what we're seeing is the projects that have gone big, I think go big before they have the people to go big, because they then say, oh, but then we're ready for when they come. But if you can just make these almost out of nowhere, for very cheap on Solana on flow, then in my opinion, what you should be doing is waiting until that demand comes and then minting so, you should just try to meet the demand instead of it gets tricky, because when when you start having VCs involved and you have targets to meet, and then they you know, if we can sell more of this so that we can meet that target which had locks, bursary. A, you know, it just gets it. It's not a one, one solution solves all because there are things behind the scenes that I couldn't possibly know about, I guess,
man that I'm very, very happy with this combo. I mean, gaming is having this dilemma, in my opinion, you mentioned Axi, there's a lot of you know, big assets that are being sold, bought and sold in the NFT space when it comes to gaming. But that doesn't really lead to a great playing experience for people that are used to free to play games that are spending, you know, just 10 bucks, 20 bucks here and there on their avatar or something like this. How does that work with trying to sell an asset that you bought at 104,000? You know, that? I just I know I can I could stay here for a while. But definitely like your thoughts here on this subject?
Yes, well, I've always been I well, I kind of go through phases with gaming, because as I said, it was the sort of gave me my gaming past that made cryptokitties clicked for me instantly. And I was like, right, where where else can these happen? In the world? Where do I see this going? And at the time, and I think it's still pretty big it was Clash of Clans was the big mobile game of the time. And people were wailing out and giving all this money to the company, just for prestige. And I was wondering if instead of instead of the money going straight to the company, what if 50% of everything you spent went into some sort of prize pool that people were competing for. And in that way, it was a sustainable model because the money was coming in from people paying because they wanted to play or compete effectively. It's it's almost the opposite of what's happening in NFTs. Now the whales are feeding, the kind of remit is to layer carbon what the little it is, or whatever. So yeah corral. So the whales feed the krill. Whereas what we saw with xe during their big run up is the whales were just getting the krill to work for them and split the profits with the krill. But where are those profits coming from? And it was effectively speculators people were speculating the price of access or smooth Love Potion were going to go up and they were buying and they were effectively exit liquidity for ZIP wasn't Venezuela was it which country the one could have been was Philippines was a huge amount of their GDP. A huge amount for a game anyway. And you're just where is this money coming from? Whereas in a game that people want to compete at, like so many of these mobile games are just absolutely money sinks of pay to win. Like the amount the amount of ads I've seen for raid shadow legends, there must be a lot of people paying to play that game just to just to win, they're not trying to profit. But if you took some of that way or cash and pumped it in, like if, if the gems you bought in these mobile games was a token and you know in ERC 20 Maybe, you know, on whatever chain to make it free. Hopefully a musical x down the line. If that was all possible. That's the sort of ecosystem I can see working because it works straight up. If people are paying to play and they can. They can let the lower down. People compete for some of that money. They Then, as the Whales have people to almost show off to write, they want to be top of those leaderboards, and to be top of the leaderboards. You want loads of people playing the game. And there will be people if there's some money to be made. So it's almost the opposite that we currently see. That I'm sure there's far more complicated ways to make this sort of thing work. But I, I can't figure that out. And for looking at the stats, I don't think anyone else has Yeah, over.
Yeah, I mean, it's it's definitely on the fringes of things, it's tough to figure out, we're trying to, you know, solve this equation as we go. So there's a lot of people in the NFT space between that 17 time and sitting here and 2022. You mentioned immutable x. So I'm thinking God's on chain there. You mentioned xe infinity, is it? Is there a project within that timeframe that you thought was going to be a lot, you know, bigger at this point, that from that 2017 To now was decentraland, something that you immediately thought, hey, is this is going to pop or maybe you kind of predicted that it wasn't going to take hold? Because in my opinion, it really hasn't done as as well as sandbox, maybe even crypto voxels at this point, but it was God's unchained something you think would be more popular now? So maybe just a lightning question there. Are there any projects you think, that you thought would be bigger at this point?
Oh, like I invested in so many games, an unbelievable amount of games. And they all died except xe, the most one of them was incredibly annoying, because I spent one Ethereum on however many tokens then it was almost like an eye ICO game. So went to their fancy website better than, you know, any NFT Project website you see now. Huge white paper, read through that all this is going to be great. It was along the lines of star sits you know, high high end space game. There's one similar issue on Solana now, which I completely forget. Yes, that's the one. Since 2017, along those lines, I get something like 2 billion of their token. They die in 2018. And a different projects, some sort of supercomputer take up the same ticker. So now when I do tech software, it thinks I've got 2 billion of these top 200 coin. And it froze. Every time I started a new, a new software it thinks I'm a billionaire. And it's annoying
that reminds me the old blockfolio errs, do remember those areas like ether delta where you'd wake up, you'd be like, holy shit, I'm a billionaire millionaire.
What a night. Actually, I can't sell that.
Yeah, man, I've got I've got so many questions, but we definitely want to get what you're doing at Purrnelope's down. So within that NFT we kind of run up. I think the first thing that I remember kind of interacting with and we joked about this on our roundtable show yesterday was was wax right like wax was a big project at the time NFT boxes, I think you guys were doing a lot of projects on wax if I'm not mistaken. I remember NFT boxes being a really cool project and you co founded that. So kind of give me your thoughts on on wax there as well. That could be one that maybe I thought would add more adoption but also it just feels like it never got that connection to Ethereum. So your take on wax and then kind of moving us into NFT boxes.
I completely dismiss wax the day they there was one day maybe 2018 where they bought the crypto kitty floor they they did the equivalent of Swift sweeping the floor. You know they they opened up gem Ragini but that was never done. Back in the day. You did not sweep floors, you looked for certain things and you bought that NFT and they must have bought a cup maybe 500 Maybe 1000 cryptokitties off the floor to sell on their site and wax. No one bought them because it made absolutely no sense. These were the worst cats of the worst. They were so cheap. There was there was absolutely no reason to go to wax and buy these. And at this point I just thought these guys don't have a clue about NFTs and then looking into it more you know the whole I don't know how many PCs actually runs on but it felt like it was on about five. Not very decentralized. I just didn't see the reason to eat. I even did more stuff on Tron. I liked Tron more for my sins.
Shout out to Justin sun. I haven't said that.
But he's left he left Trani is he's running politics now.
Yeah, well, I guess with the millions and billions of dollars you can do that. So so I don't Did you guys have wax projects in NFT Boxes? Am I remembering that incorrectly?
No, I don't think that was us. That must have been someone else because we launched January 2021. Okay, and it was wax that
must have been 10 years ago. So I get my timelines confused. So, tell me a little bit about this because obviously, you know, you've co founded that with Pranksy. What was that? You know, I guess origin story and you ended up leaving the project, I'd love to hear kind of just a quick note on on this time in your life and nfts
I guess the rundown is a new Pranksy pre NF Ts. I got Pranksy into cryptokitties. We sort of degeb NFTS together. He was I knew him through gambling. So we're both degening in almost every area of our life. Just you know, going through the the NFT waves, all the different 2018 stuff, crypto celebrities, ethermons, CSC, all these different all these different projects. And then just stuck in stocking up goods. I remember at one point, we were trying to Pranksy was trying to convince a group of us to buy something like 500 Crypto punks for naught point two each. And as a group, we didn't go for it because I think the floor was like naught point one five, but you would never have got that much, much volume because you'd have moved the floor too much. And he stocked up quite a few sort of base basically, we were just, you know, degenerate NFT friends. An idea of building a box based thing and selling what he called at the time our bags or the all the dead NFT like, it wasn't even you know the yetis of this world. It was NFTs that you could no longer see because they weren't even ERC seven two ones. They were basically reskinned ERC 20s. And the images, the websites were long gone. And I can't even find the tokens now if I wanted have so many projects. And just we had a group that's called a quite a lot of people. And that sort of idea would always just crop up with no one ever actually, you know, building on it. And I'd sent Pranksy A dm 2020, December, maybe two weeks before Christmas, and just said, Look, should we do it properly. You know, a lot of artists at this point. So I think he just done a big building crypto voxels Pranksy land where he got different artists in each plot to go with a theme. And the idea was, you do that sort of thing. But in a box, the artist gets over artists in so people buy a box, and they get 10 bits of curated art, maybe add in some projects as well, which some box did. Every, every single time every single box, they put something and they were very, very good to work with. And I would basically my my side of the business was community talking to the people in discord all the time figuring out what it was they were after, and then finding the devs organizing the devs getting the website up, you know, all those sorts of good get it, I had to get it to work, and he had to get it to sell and fill the box. So he would talk to the artists and sell it. And I would talk to the devs in the community. And I ended up selling my half to him, just because we wanted very different things. I wanted to focus on the community. So you know, it was almost like the Topshot conundrum. If they keep, you know, putting these things out without any reason the prices would drop. So I wanted to add sort of I wanted to gamify the art so that the community would keep up pieces they didn't want. Whereas Pranksy will go no, look, I'm talking to the artists all day. I can't say Hey, can you put some art in this box? But then eventually it might be? Okay. Yeah. So I was like, but the community need this and he was like, but the artists need this and we just, I was like, okay, like we're not going to because we were 5050 and a UK registered business. So I said, Okay, I'll sell my half to you. And go do the community stuff and you can stay here and do the art stuff. So we still talk you know, most days still friends. So it was more for you know a good split, I guess, yeah,
in you guys did a great job with that project, obviously. I mean, I remember just being a great, you know, mover at the time with different artists and all these different things that you're mentioning. Pranksy obviously is a is a big personality as well, in the NFT space has had a lot of different projects that he's been, you know, involved in. You mentioned you're still friends with him. I don't know him personally, of course, what is the role of influencers in the NFT space today? Because, you know, Pranksy has had, you know, effect on like, I'm, like, I mentioned a bunch of different NFT projects, you seem to have some knowledge, you know, behind the curtain a little bit, you know, of what, what goes on? What is the role of, of influencers in today's NFT market? Maybe, especially in the bear market,
where they, they pretty much decide what people buy, right? It's just marketing is everything in NFTs right now. And I guess when you say the word influencer, generally, there's, there's bad energy there, people, people aren't too happy with the word influence, like if you were, if you were doing a good or bad, quick, quick move, like you'd say words and people have say good or bad, you know, dog, good, cat, good influencer, I think most people would say bad. It's, you see that word is a bad thing. And I guess in this space, I would say, you know, maybe the last year Pranksy has seen his influence that he's had and really step back and trying to do things properly and not the absolute shill fests that we see with others, where they're just like, Oh, my God, I just meant it upside down Yellow Birds. I actually, I saw a video for probably exist, it almost certainly does. Because yellow is like, X ray. I saw bird bird boobs, Moon boobs, which is just Moon birds. But they've put boobs on from probably one of the crypto Dick butts. Derivatives sounds
like a good that sounds like a good combination, to be honest.
That's it, that seems building right. And the issue is people follow influencers because they can make money knowing you have to follow influences, to know where the markets going. If you care. If you're day trading NFTS, are weak trading NFTs you have to follow them. And that gives them a bigger, it's almost like trading rules like traders have these rules that if x happens, y then happens. And if influencer tweets X, Y happens because people think y will happen, it just makes it happen. And that just makes them stronger for the next time because the people who followed their call have made money. And I think a lot of people if done in a different sphere of influence would be heavily heavily fined for their actions. I think back to I don't watch it. But in the UK, there's a show called Love Island. And generally people go on to become influencers because they're on the TV for a month. And when they come out, they get good brand deals. And a year or two ago someone was fined pretty badly for doing a it was something like a 2000 pound shill and not disclosing that it was an ad 2000 pounds has absolutely nothing to high influence here. And I do not see hashtag ad almost ever it's just I've just bought into even giving away whitelist spots people need to put ad if they have in any way benefited and doing a giveaway giveaway benefits you Luckily, I'm covered because I do giveaways for my own projects. So that's you're covered there because it's quite clear. You know, if Bill Gates has tweeted about Microsoft, you should probably know he likes Microsoft
yeah we're very much in an environment of the of the Wild West is people you know mainly have used as an example so there's a lot of things that go on that wouldn't go on on on more established sectors. So another being doxed teams right like I'm sitting here next to a very dapper cat here on the on the video. As we sit here on the NFTYQ show guys, we're do we do this every Wednesday, Thursday. You Usually at 2pm Eastern Standard, but today we're coming in here a little bit later so I just wanted to get a quick shout out to you guys but sitting here next to a cat, you are not your semi doxxed as we talked about before the episode, your team is doxed as well. But what is the role of you know doxxed individuals are not undoxxed individuals here. I think that that's a big, you know, talking point here today as we see some rugs happening from you know, undoxed teams, what do you make of the doxxed verse undoxxed debate,
I think is getting more important. And I think it only really recently became more important, though, there was that case where two people basically Ruggles everyone went to court. And I think they've ended up in prison for a certain amount of time, or, or heavily. Yeah, maybe 15 years in prison are sort of, you know, you see so much in the NFT space as a couple.
Was it the couple? Are you talking to?
The No, it's that sorry, the rapper, girl who hacked? No, this was this was an NFT, Project founder, who, who minted and then basically said, See you later we're rocking. I can't remember exactly who it is not pixelmon on the New Zealand guy. Although he did meet the news over there. But that has definitely account for it. It was it was not squiggles, but it was maybe along that kind of line where they minted men didn't do anything. And went to court, and they've been jailed for it. And then suddenly, quite a lot of projects came back and started tweeting because I think right we need a minimum viable roadmap production here so that we don't end up in jail. And when there is a real risk of profit because obviously one project in 1000s that have robbed isn't a big risk, when there's a real high chance that just straight up ragging or having having the intention to just meant and do nothing does send you to jail, then I think being fully doxxed is going to be you know, a thing and while I am a cat that's mainly because it's Have you seen the meme where there's all those absolutely massive Chad Jim guys like typing on their laptops to the little weekend and they're like, You got it king. You got this one I'm a cat in everyone's mind, I'm the chat on the the big chin sort of chat guy that basically I'm sighs chat. And then when I doxxed I'm not
so you're, you're letting everyone fill in the void of what? Who you are as an individual? Is that what you're saying?
Exactly. You've fit they fill in the imagination, right? It's it just is that's not even like planned or anything like it just at this point. I don't I just don't have a webcam. And that was my first. That was my first few interviews and then it was like, well now I kind of can't do Purrnelope's of UK again like NFT boxes a UK registered business. You know, it's registered to me. Like I'm not hiding. I'm not I wouldn't say undoxxed I am doxxed, so I just don't like to share it. I
guess NFT ethics probably will get on the case here.
Oh NFT ethics knows where I live almost certainly. They've got they've got nothing to post about. And anyone I've had community members sent me my address. Like, not in a threatening way or anything, but they were like if I wanted to send you some merch, could I send it here and I was like, so I'm just not a nail bomb or whatever.
What I'm getting from you here is that I would probably be cooler if I was undoxxed so I don't know if I can reverse this. This feature once you doxxed, you are doxxed, so just need a new name, right? That's true. Just create a new persona later guys. We're gonna end the stream now. But anyways, let's get into Purrnelope's here man, I want to hear how you kind of founded the Purrnelope's Country Club. Really, really cool project has been around for a year, obviously, you know, you have this reputation as being a really solid individual in the space. So I think a really solid foundation there for any project but tell me a little bit about Purrnelope's.
Yeah, so it was born out of selling my half of NFT boxes to Pranksy. And I guess like because you're just saying reputation does matter. And I have used the same wallet since the days of crypto kitties. I have used, you know, other wallets when I don't want everyone to know what I'm buying or selling just because even in my level of non influence, or I don't like people knowing that I'm buying an x, and then I'm selling a why? Because I started to get messages like, Oh, why are you selling my projects like, well, because I kind of want to profit sometimes, you know. And I have 16 and a half 1000 transactions on my main wallet, never scammed anyone. So that sort of, and these are mostly NFT trades or mints, or whatever. And what I've done there is I've built a reputation of, you know, being trustworthy, which is probably more more useful than just having my name because you know, your name, you technically can change, but I can never change that wallet transactions. So Purrnelope's was I wanted to do it, right. It's, it is a profile picture project. But dunrite is kind of how I sell it. And a profile picture project in reality is just a web 3 business. Because you can do anything, once you've got that profile picture, people go for games, people go for education, people go for tokens, you know, there are, there are loads of different ways you can take it. You can go out for groups. And be nimble is very important, because you don't know, it's not even what the next matter is. It's what's the next breakthrough in this tech. So recently, we airdropped a grandma to all Purrnelope's Country Club holders. And the little easter egg we had in there is if you own the same number Purrnelope As you have grandma, the grandma will hold up a frame of the Purrnelope in front of her, like all proud of proud of the Purrnelope. And that changes on open see as soon as it's in your wallet. And that's not even like you know, a big tech thing that's not even new. But you don't know what's next. We don't know what's coming. So being able to pivot, what we do is we focus firstly, on the community. So it is a meme. I know everyone says you know community, but we actually communicate with them. We've got 60 Plus YouTube videos, in less than a year out there. We've got lots of medium articles, we've got 1000s of tweets on our account, we put out maybe four to six tweets a day all planned by the social media team, you know, just like a normal business would. But that's very rare in NFTs. Like I said, we've done eight airdrops, all of which have multi purpose. So we're going to release an NFT called the collection log, which sort of shows what you have within our universe and like the grandma that will update in real time. So if you've got a Purrnelope it will show and then if you sell it it leaves.
Can I just say that the grandma piece is an interesting piece of Game and Game theory there that that I'm sure went well, but you got people eventually just asking where's my grandma. So essentially, you would need to match the cat with the grandma to to get the feature you're talking about. So eventually somebody would get your grandma and not sell you it. So then you couldn't get this feature. I just think it's a cool game therapies there.
You've you've said something that was incredibly interesting to me when this happened because normally you minted NFT. And whatever NFT you get, that's yours as your NFT. Whereas, as you've just said, people have been going, you've got my grandma, where know you've, you've got your NFT they have your matching grandma, but people don't see it that way. We've changed. We've changed how they view the NFT which was very interesting to see a community get someone's built a site where you put in your wallet and it will tell you who has air quotes your grandma, so you can hunt them down to try and do a deal. We did we did on purpose is not rarely make, you know, rare traits. Because when you're going for a swap, you know there are some that are rarer, but there's no gold ape you know, there's no gold grandma. And that's so that the trades are much easier. Hey, can I swap this for this? Yeah, because it's better for you. We aren't really Seeing any scalping, which was my worry, because we had a companion earlier, it was a seconder, drop the kittens, and they're held up with arms, they're sort of dangling in the picture. And you can just see arms and those arms are the Purrnelope's. And again, the kitten, that arms in the kitten Profile Picture Match the cat number. So my, my cat number, kitten form has the gold arms dangling down holding the kitten. And then we have the grandma holding the frame. So we've kind of progressed it with the grandma, we've got a few ideas how to take that further down the line.
I hope everybody at home can, I hope everyone at home can understand, like the importance of the conversation that's and in the the, I guess evolution of what you guys are doing with Purrnelope is because that is one of the first times that I've heard what you exactly what you talked about of any other project of trying to assign ownership to something that's really not yours. And I I say that facetiously I say that like totally in a funny way. But that is one of the first times where I've heard of people, you know, saying, hey, even though I don't own that, based on the lower or based on the storyline of this project that is mine, you know, like that's, that's a cool, cool feature that you guys have added.
And that's kind of what NFT is all about for me, you know, online ownership. And the other key thing is connection. And it originally when I came into this space, I thought it will be connection with other people which obviously can be so an artist can connect with their collectors much easier because they know where all the pieces they've sold. Ah but this was a different connection with an NFT which completely blindsided me. I feel like at least maybe the first three years of NFT. I just didn't think your connection would be with the NFT or even with law whereas people are now proving that the connection can be with a guess in a way almost anything if you can connect with an NFT what can't you connect with?
Are you muted Sorry, I thought it might be my headset
unmuted me check
I just changed the battery in my headset so forehead run out. But I can't I can't hear you.
I should be coming through I see my levels here on on YouTube. Guys. Let me know if you can still hear me.
Can you not hear me? Oh, looks like we're good on on the YouTube side.
I can hear you on the YouTube recording. But I can't hear you here.
Okay. Can you can't hear me anymore? Okay. All right. How are we doing now? Can you hear me? Yes. Yes. All right.
Guys, this is a late night NFTYQ show that that is why you're getting all of these. These mishaps if you will, so. Alright, well, we'll move on to the kind of roadmap updates here. I wanted to get you know, what Purrnelope's getting into as it relates to, you know, any upcoming features. I know, the token is one that I'm really really, you know, interested in as it relates to adding NFTs to or I'm sorry, adding ERC 20s to current NFT projects. I feel like a lot of projects do that when they're not ready to, you know, and I think you have the idea that we're building, you know, for that demand, like you mentioned earlier, that NFT products should be doing that. So take me into any updates as it's related to Purrnelope's and then into that token piece.
Yeah, so token is a huge part of where we're going. And we're currently effectively doing a token sale. We have a sale coming up where we're selling NFTs, that will yield 20% of the total supply of token over a 15 year period. So this will slowly daily be released to people. And the powerful thing about tokens there is you can stop people having to sell their NFT for profit, the so we are, everything we're doing right now is to try and connect people to their NFT we're making, we've done this grandma thing, you know, we want them to think about why they want their NF Ts and we an absolutely huge thing we've done is ens, subdomains where they effectively name their cat. Again, it adds to the stickiness, people want to keep their DNS subdomain, they want to keep their wallet, they want to keep their grandma, they might want to keep their set. And if all you're doing is keeping stuff, you know, this space, sadly, is at the moment, mostly about profit. So we can give them this token, which they can sell. But our job is to make them not want to sell it. So it's, it's going to be our ecosystem token. And we will be constantly putting out updates of how they can spend it. And I've, I've just had to watch all the other projects. So like you said, they put it out before they're ready, bro next to me here is I've got a bit of a contract here for opening up the company that will launch token and it was registered on probably best not so the day it might doxxed it but the first two weeks of December last year. So we're looking at almost six months ago, actually, probably over six months ago now that we registered a company to launch token. So we have been thinking about this for a long time. We're making sure that we do it right. And when you do launch it, the main thing you need is utility. So again, something that bord apes didn't do, but they didn't need to. But everyone else will need to. Because who wants your token just because it's there. Yeah, you need to give them a reason. So we will be launching with multiple reasons to use your token instead of sell it, multiple reasons to buy it. Because obviously, if people are going to want to sell it, we need to convince people to buy it. So there needs to be, we need to create reasons to buy it. When you don't own a Purrnelope country club NFT as well, we need, we need to try and tap into a wider market.
Any examples you can give off the batter, you guys have that under wraps for now.
The the one purpose that I've already shared, so I can I'm not very good at keeping things secret is our tier two. So the grandmas and the kittens are kind of where they're what we call tier three. So in the bord APE ecosystem, they would be your Kennel Club, the dog. Tier two would be the mutants or for punks, it'd be the meebit. So tier two will only be claimable via token. And that's mainly because it's the best way at the moment to give a use case. For a token, cyberkongs did it with their babies, you could you could breed to cyberkongs with a certain amount of banana. And that saw a lot of demand, their issue was when they came to the end of babies, they didn't have anything else for banana to be spent on. So there was a huge cliff in demand on banana right away. And suddenly everyone that had banana was trying to sell it because they had no reason to keep hold of it. And then they release, you know, they release something later. So we're trying to do is build up sort of a pipeline of things that we can release at certain points. That hopefully mean if we've calculated it correctly, that demand will be matched pretty well, as token continues to come out. And the thing of an NFT is, in reality, it only costs us work time, you know, the artists has to make the art. The Dev has to create the contract, the web dev or the ideas guy need to make a reason for that NFT to exist. Whereas we've we were also selling our physical models, but the issue of the models is they cost money. So we have to pay to create them, which means if we take token for them, we have to sell that token. So it's not really taking it out of the ecosystem, which is why the NFT is so good, because you can just completely remove that token without having to put it in to replenish anything. So that's the, that's the first. First one I've revealed.
What are the roadmap features can you get to before we get out of the episode here, man, I think it's been a good one where it's hitting at about an hour or so. Just wanted to get on some roadmap features with what you guys are building.
Well, if it's talked about just one, it'll be subdomains but if I quickly whip through, say, the biggies, we have an NFT world coming built by entity builds is coming out with four games, a golf game, zombie apocalypse game and escape room in a PvP game. And because it's NFT worlds, it's sort of in our Minecraft based world based on you know, the most battle hardened gaming tech in the world, because Minecraft is the most played that will have the world token introduced originally. And it won't be played to earn it will be played and done. So get the most zombie kills in a day, get some token, get the best score on golf, get some token, you know, it'd be based on achievements rather than turning up, which I think is most projects is problem right now. They they pay you to turn up, basically. So that's that's the world we have a fresh website coming, which will in time host a different type of game, which I'm calling a social game, which you may have seen the subdomains floating around on Twitter. I don't know if you've played any sort of NFT games at the moment, cool cats game defy kingdoms, you know, click on quest accept transaction off they go. The coolcats website is excellent. It's a very smooth experience. But I think we're seeing the floor drop because it's not super fun. Yeah, what what I want to do is sort of take that a different route. I want that excellent, smooth website. But I want your quests to be related to your ENS subdomain. So you can link your ENS subdomain to an API of almost anything web 2 so because it's the most useful for sort of a project, we'll start with Twitter, and your quest for the day could be like 10 Other dot PCC dot ETH tweets, you know, something is simple like that. And what that does is it makes your community interact with each other somewhere else instead of discord. They're liking each other's tweets on Twitter algo hits up they start seeing other PCCs dot efe as they get closer as a community, they chat more, you've got a more active community when built into a smooth website, with leaderboards and currently we don't even we just have a discord bot that tells you how many other dot PCC dot ETH you're following. And people love it, there's no rewards, there's no nothing, they just want to follow over PCC dot ethers, and it gives you hints. So say you follow I think there are about 450 at the moment and if you follow 350 It will give you a hint of one that you're not following. And it will also tell you all the fake ones that you're following because people saw that we were doing this and just started putting dot PCC dot ETH to their name to get free followers. Well now we got another sort of quest which is going follow all the fake unfollow the fake ones that you do follow and it just gives you a big list of everyone that have briefly tricked you before you fix it.
Well, I think you're onto something there with the dot PCC too because it's taking up real estate or like filling a valuable portion of real estate on one of the most active NFT community websites you know out there right social media is out there like rug radio I think experimented with this with their with their Twitter header where if you go to somebody's you know Twitter header, there's real estate there that can be utilized by an NFT project you know, PFPs are great example that within the profile picture, but you guys are doing that in the actual profile name. I think it's it's
yes. So it's, it's your brand dot your favorite brand, which currently is us because there's no one else you know, favorite by default, and then your favorite chain which is obviously eth your crazy. So it just allows people to both be themselves while also telling people More about the which I think is where NFTs will go anyway, your wallets going to end up being an expression of yourself when we can curate it a bit more because obviously right now all my wallet would tell anyone is that I hold NFTs that make people spam flyers at me for them mint wherever whereas in the future you know it's a second profile picture isn't it? So we've got quit.pcc.eth who is a large Twitter account who reps aboard he has a profile picture but has quit.pcc.eth as his username and he tells us he gets asked all the time about that. You know because it is advertising real estate when you're thinking about it from a project and it's just an another avatar when you're a member of the project.
100% I love that man. This episode has been great man, this interview has been fantastic. I know it's late, where you're at I'm sure you're a little bit of a night owl is all our all our NFT friends usually are but I definitely want to let you go relatively quickly here. So any last points that you want to make as it's related to a Purrnelope country club here and just in the info
I guess I guess I should show our sale. While I'm here we have this we have the sale coming up for naught point one if we're going to be doing it as soon as we hit our second tax year just so we don't sell and get hit instantly with a 21% tax before we can spend it on salary and all that that properly set up a year of history of actually delivering doing exciting things and not rugging. So why not mint from us instead of minting and upside down goblin. When you know, even if we don't pump in that first four minutes before you decide to sell for a loss, you know that in six months, we'll still be here. And I guess apart from ENS and Token and NFT worlds, the most exciting thing for me is experimenting with just NFT these little pushes in how you can use NFTs so the grandma isn't new tech, but it's a useful social use. And I'm excited for what the collection log will then do with similar sort of utility.
love it love it man. All right, well, I'm going to get out of here now guys, me and Carlini are gonna take it easy here for the rest of the night. appreciate you showing up here on the NFTYQ show. Carlini it's always great to catch up with a fellow 2017 Degen man I appreciate you hopping on today.
No thanks for having me. It's been great fun.
Alright guys, we are taken out later.
Cheers thank you