Carlini8 is today's Zenchats guest. He is an NFT expert who has been engaging in the NFT space since 2017, the Ex-CoFounder of NFT Boxes, a project he co-founded with Pranksy, and the founder of Purrnelope's Country Club. We discuss his time in NFTs and Crypto in 2017, how he and Pranksy built NFT Boxes, and, most importantly, how he created Purrnelope's Country Club, which was inspired by CryptoKitties. Don't miss this episode as Carlini8 shares some fantastic insights regarding his projects as well as advice for people on what to do for the next NFT bull run.
This transcript is computer generated and has not been proofread.
Speakers: Carlini8 (73%), Zeneca (27%)
Nothing on the show is meant as financial advice and please do your own research.
Intro with Carlini8
Hello, hello and welcome to another episode of Zen chats. I'm Zeneca I'mhere with Carlini eight. A person that I've seen in the space who's been in the space for a very long time, I'm really thrilled to speak to the founder of Purrnelope is Country Club project x co founder of NFT boxes, which was founded by Pranksy. And just just someone who I think is a big brain in the space, always posting hot takes on Twitter and interesting insights. And I'm really thrilled to be here, chatting with. But first of all, it will quick getting into all the background. But first of all, hello, welcome. How are you today?
Hi, I'm great. Thanks. Thanks for having me on looking forward to chat NFTs.
Yeah, I mean, we were chatting sort of off air that we could chat for hours and hours and hours. There's so much to talk about when it comes to NFTs. And that's one of the great things about it. But I always like to begin with asking for what I call like your origin story. How did you sort of like what did you do before all of this madness of web three and NFTs? And then how did you get into this world.
From professional gambling to NFTs
So before NFTs, I was technically a professional gambler. So I would take advantage of offers that gambling sites would put out, like welcome offers or reload offers. And I'd work out if it was an Eevee plus move to do this offer, and then just do those offers on mass scale. It started out as something called, well, it turned into effectively what the gambling companies would call bonus abuse, they didn't like it, because they're putting these out these bonuses out to lure you in, so then you lose your monthly salary to them. Whereas if you're only doing the offers that they try and use to lure you in, you can make money. So I was you know, it's when you say professional gambler, it feels wrong, because you know, I'm not a poker table or anything like that I was just grinding offers, but
I used to do that as well. I did that. So I was a professional poker player. And I mean, since 2004, no, 2005 I guess, maybe 2004. And then I think you know, running in those circles, you started to see people who were doing, you know, Blackjack, bonuses, we, you know, you get the bonus. And then I, you know, play perfect strategy. And you can make money. And I remember, at a certain point, there was slot machines that you could find an edge on because you'd get like, you know, $1,000 Bonus deposit 1000 Get $1,000 to play with. And then if you played like a slot machine, game, at the end of like the rotation, that'd be like an option to like, flip it, like a 5050 outcome. And there was no edge on that for the house. So if you get your bet, and you could just keep doing that. And like that could result in the the turnover required to deposit or withdraw the bonus. And I remember like setting up just automatic, you set them to like automatically spin or go to sleep and wake up and they just yeah, sometimes you'd have crazy amounts of money. And most of times you'd lose but over the long run, you sort of take the houses money, but did you ever get
exactly, exactly, yeah. So the slots because they, they sort of got got wise to it and started doing things like Max spin sizes, and you're not allowed to do those edgeless 5050s At the end, but it would end up in this bonus even if it's Fazal rivers and you get your 2000 Whack it all on a single number on roulette. And then if that hits, you then grind out for a very long time. So you know 18 hours wagering that an auto clickers just spinning away. And obviously you lose on the Roulette spin a lot. And I don't know something about doing those big spins. definitely helped coming into NFTs and sort of having the risk tolerance that we needed.
Yeah, I mean, it's the it's no coincidence that there's a lot of like gamblers and poker players and people in the NFT and crypto space I think because we've got that tolerance for the variance and the swings that a lot of quote unquote normal people saying to people I like to say don't necessarily have it's not a normal thing to just like, Oh, I just lost $20,000 or like whatever is like oh, okay, that's that's just another day at the office but you kind of need that at a certain point. You drive yourself insane
Staying in the space pays off
and I we're seeing quite a lot of people right now are being driven insane. And you know, Twitter's probably at the lowest engagement levels for a long time for NFTs people are leaving at the moment. They just can't, they just can't take it I guess.
bear market things search. I mean, we're recording this in In the ninth of June and 2022, and it's just like it's been bearish for a couple of months. And like you said, engagements, real low sentiment is low. But it's nice to see the people who were sticking around that, you know, are building and doing, just keeping on keeping on. And yeah, these are the people I think that if you're here now, if you listen to this, like live if you still, if you're still listening to NFT podcast during a bear market, if you following and if you Twitter, then you're in a pretty good spot, I'd say. Just keep doing it and eventually things will will turn around. I think.
I mean, I was that's exactly what we thought before. So I was I was in NFTs 2017 Crypto kitties, a lot of people joined in that December, like a huge amount compared to how many how many then stuck around crypto kitties was a first to 100,000 unique wallets. And that's not holders like we look at now that's 100,000 that have ever interacted with the ecosystem. So if you owned a crypto kitty, and then sold it, you didn't have one, but you still counted in those stances? Only one at some point. Yeah. And so many people joined at that point, left, and then came back in 2021 for the ballroom, whereas those those people who stayed from point A to point B, and now the people that everyone knows they know their name, they love to you know, these people who have been buying NFTs for so long. They know the space. And people think, Oh, they're geniuses, they they saw this coming? No, we were we were down bad more than everyone is down bad. Now I can tell you that. We thought we were crazy. And NFTs will never, you know, we believed in lefties, but the rest of the world weren't. And for a long time, we thought everyone else was the crazy ones. And then you know, sometimes it dipped saying we actually were crazy. Yeah.
That's I mean, that's sort of I think, like a lot of people might be feeling right now. We sort of like skipped ahead, because I interrupted to get excited about gambling and stuff. But how did you get from, you know, being a professional gambler to getting into crypto and nfts? Was it was it 2016 2017 That you got in was it earlier?
Well, I was in crypto a tiny bit in 2015. A bit more in 16. And then early 17 is when I made like a bigger move in, I guess. And somewhere before 2015 minus two years up to 2015 I mined some bitcoin but I can't remember exactly when all I know is I was at my old house and I moved into the next house in 2015. So as before that I was in crypto, but Bitcoin didn't interest me too much. I, you know, I sort of got the whole point of it. I just didn't like that I can do anything. Anything useful. And then Ethereum came along, you know, tried to get rid of the middleman sort of that was the sort of early big push was just get rid of that middleman for everything. Before sort of people were really talking about everything that smart contracts could do. And I was before NFTs I was degening in lots of different tokens on Ethereum you know, the next X then X Y, Zed, Airbnb but on Ethereum the next big supercomputer you know loads of these different things.
CryptoKitties mania & being early
And then one day I was in hospital in my wife was in hospital, but I was there as well. We had to stay the night and I was in a big chair, hospital chair couldn't sleep like 2am have my laptop and one of those hospital beds that rolls into the tables that rolls into the bed. You know there's a huge gap. And I was put my laptop on it was just scrolling through. It was I think it was discord. And someone had pointed me towards crypto kitties can't remember who or how or why. Or maybe I just found an article. And from that night, it was just for a solid month was breeding crypto kitties. And based on all the different wallets I used in 2017 I probably did the most NFT transactions out of everyone because the money there weren't many projects to do it on those basically punks and crypto Kitties and I've bred the most crypto kitties when you add up on multiple wallets. Which leads me to believe probably, you know, smaller baseless claims he probably did the most NFT transactions in 17 and then there was a huge crash crypto crashed. I think Bitcoin went towards the end of that year. and Ethereum kept going a bit until January. And then you know, ETH was wanted to hit maybe 1.4k and then all the way just slowly bleed all the way down to $80. But I wasn't full time. It was it was a hobby. It was a hobby that consumed all of my time. And the gambling job was mainly setting up auto clickers and VMs and all of this sort of stuff. So that wasn't engaging. It wasn't exciting. It was just grinding for money. Yeah, so I was grinding for money, gambling, and I was degening in NFTs for fun, I guess. And it was amazing. You just felt like you're in something new and early. But you were early in a way. You know, right now everyone says, Oh, we're early. But I would argue NFTs are a sure thing at this point. Back then we didn't really know what we were going for. We were just having fun and just just hooked and stuck around constantly. Since.
Amazing. Yeah, I I mean, I was around a little bit in 2016 2017. But I remember I was still very much playing poker and interested by Ethereum. smart contracts dapps. It all sounded great to me. But it's all very theoretical. And we had this one friend who I played poker with every day, and he bought a crypto kitty. And we basically just made fun of him mercilessly for like, two years. It would be like how's that digital cat going for you? And and
that was me with every single friendship group I had met
And now he's like, Well, now you have your own digital cats.
I know, circle and even the breeds that we have. We picked breeds as sort of, I guess the road the skin of projects, and I picked ones from Krypto kitties. Sort of a homage to Yeah. So my reads?
NFT Boxes & starting Purrnelope's Country Club
Well, let's, let's fast forward then a bit from the cryptokitty mania of 2017 to like, I guess when you had the idea for Purrnelope's Country Club and sort of why you wanted to launch an NFT product of your own.
All well, I guess that really starts with NFT boxes. So there was a there was an idea sort of floating around a friend friendship discord for a year, maybe even two years of just this box with NFTs in it, and you open it and there were loads of different permutations. And the one that was most commonly spoken about was we've got between us hundreds of 1000s of NFTs. What if we just put them in boxes and sold them to people blindly boxes? And that was the one that kept being spoken about mainly because, you know, most most friendship chats boil down to how do we sell our bags?
One one day, you know, it just this topic cropped up again. And I just messaged Pranksy, and said, Hey, should we actually do this and do it properly, because I knew Pranksy had connections with artists. So he could I guess source source the right work to go inside the box. And he could sell. And I could do all the sort of boring back end stuff. I could set up the company, I could find the Dev, I could get the website set up, I could link it all together. And then I could build the community and doing the NFT boxes, I caught the building bug like I really enjoyed it felt, I guess it felt like those early cryptokitties days again, because I was sort of working towards something and really trying to build it up and it was fun. And then we kind of kept because the business was effectively split in half I wanted to do stuff that would I guess gamify the art but make the community happy.
And Pranksy who was talking to the artists every day wasn't, you know, because I can't go and tell these artists that we're going to gamify their art because the art is the utility and sort of we kept we both found we have a 5050 and a properly set up UK business. So it wasn't like one of us had 51% and could make the call. And I just eventually it just got to me saying look, shall I just sell you my 50% because I want to work on the community side. And I can't if it's conflicting with the artist side. So maybe you have the connections and the you know, promotional self to really push boxes, and I can go off and do my own thing. I saw I was, I was caught with a bug, it was never about no trying to profit or anything like that. Because when you look at how Purrnelope has been run, I'm down on Purrnelope Because it all went back pretty much. So it was it was really about trying to build what I for NFT should be doing it properly, is how I try and try and phrase it. So Purrnelope's was technically born about March 2021. Had lots of different iterations. Until we then finally launched I think it was July, we we started to mint. And it was it was Yoast just great again, it was it was like the early days of NFT boxes or the early days of cryptokitties. It was I just felt that fun again.
Kitty Vault & unique utility
And you mentioned that everything you got sort of went back into it and you're down on it. Can you talk through like because it is such an interesting structure set up in terms of like the funds and how that all works? And can you like maybe talk to you that for people who aren't familiar with it?
Yeah, of course. So we have something called the kitty Vault, which is a collection of NFTs is effectively a wallet with, I think it's currently after the bear about 820 Ethereum. Floor prices, it was above 1000 at one point. Keep in mind, we took 800 Ethereum from our initial sale, and we only take 1% for us on the secondary. So the kitty vault is currently valued at more than we took in as a company. And that's not ours, that's the communities it's effectively fractionalized into 100,000 different pieces. And one of those pieces is inside every Purrnelope is also inside every AirDrop, we we did eight drops one a month with sort of jewel utility. And one of those pieces of utility being it's a fraction of this kitty vault. There are also I guess, other drawers, six of them are physicals so you can burn this NFT and we will send you depends what it is. But we've got a hoodie, which is which has an NFT attached. And the NFT can only be pooled to whoever has that hoodie. So that's born out of I had frustration Ertz I've got all three ferocious trainers. And it kind of annoyed me that I saw I sold the NFTs in the run up to clone x. And now I see those trainers every day. They're right next to me, they're within touching distance. And I like them to look at their art and their frames and you know, nicely there. But I'm an NFT guy, and I've sold the NFT Why do I have these? So the hoodie is based on it's IYK is a company that have been working on this. And the NFT is pulled to whoever has the hoodie with them physically. So it can also be used for lots of fun things like, you know, proof of proof of owning something while out and about can be used in lots of different ways. And that's, you know, that's one of the airdrops that we've done and we're trying to how does that work? I could do half an hour on the hoodie.
Yeah, I mean, I'm so curious. I'm gonna ask how does it work on like a technical level?
Let me grab one here it was. In arm there's like a patch where there's a is it NFC sort of tech insight? Yeah. And by putting your phone next to it, it starts a transaction, but they've modified the NFT so you can't send the NFT anywhere. It can only be pulled by that NFC. Wow. So it is truly sort of proof of, I guess, when you really break it down is proof of ownership of the NFC because someone could rip up a hoodie and cut it out. Yeah, yeah. But because we're talking about hoodies and you know, it's not the Mona Lisa. So who's gonna be Yeah, it's effectively almost certainly proof of hoodie. And that will be you know, you can give people airdrops based on earning this physical, you can let them into certain places on the club. So just thinking, you know, board apes, they've got their Miami clubhouse, you can have certain areas that you can only get to if you've got this physical, which can be proven that you own and you don't have to take it with you. So there are lots of interesting things that you can do with that. It's one of those things. Yeah, you know, it sounds like Why would you do that? And then when you think about potential use cases, they don't exist yet. But that's pretty much this whole space. We're all thinking about what we can do. Yeah.
No, I mean, it sounds like so many people talk about like, token getting live events and stuff like that. And token proof. You know, they've they've done some pretty cool things at the moment. But I think this is almost an even more frictionless way. Like, if you own this physical thing, you own the NFT. Right, and you can go x y Zed or get discounts you know, at certain places, I think is something that we're going to see a lot of in the future. Yeah, that's just so cool.
our eight airdrops, two of them were companions. So what we call tier three. So you know, your, your board ape Kennel Club, sort of level the dogs, kittens and grandmas. And something cool we did with the grandmas just sort of to showcase NFT tech? I guess not. Again, it's not one of these things where you're like, oh, what's the what's the use, but if you have the same number Purrnelope So the main collection and grandma, this grandma cat will hold up a frame in front of her with the cat inside it, like all proud of her grandkids. So cool. And what that's done is it's it's made an interesting change in how people view the NFTs which I've never really seen before. Because if you meant an NF t, that is yours, that is your NFT. But what we're seeing in our Discord is people are tagging people go, Hey, blardy blar, you've got my grandma, they've got their own grammar. Because of this little sort of psychological thing we've done there. C is theirs, which is just an interesting, sort of flip on how NFTs can be viewed.
So is it with the claim or the airdrop for the grandmas? Was it if you had the cat, you got the corresponding grandma? And then some people then went on sale the cat or is it like a random distribution of grandma out there trying to find you got? Oh, that's why Yeah.
So I think we've got like a leaderboard of people who have managed to match up the most grandmas. And I think it was the lead with 17 is cocoa bear. Yeah. And that's purely what's his he's our top holder. He has 320. And he just made 17.
That sounds about right, that sounds like
grinding so hard. And he's still just double everyone else.
It's amazing. Just whale things. Yeah. That's cool. It sounds like you're doing I mean, you've done with thekitty vault and really drops in the physical stuff and stuff. It sounds like you're really doing some different things, which I think is is something that I've always appreciated about the project. I remember, I think I missed the mint, but would have been like mid last year. No, it would have been like August or something. I heard about the project. And I did some research. I was like, This sounds different. This sounds cool. This actual, I think I'm overthinking this actual utility, like is not just another PFP project. And like, it sounds great. I want to be I want to just be part of it. And, you know, unfortunately, as things go, there's just been so many projects, and so much stuff happening that I haven't like kept up with basically any project that I've been in, but it's so cool to hear that you've continued innovating, I guess is the word.
Oh, that's the there's just no time when, when you're working on your own thing. It's so hard to keep up with even just another one, let alone the 1000s that we see and then the hundreds that make it past the first month and then the 10 here in a year. It's It's so hard. And I guess the best thing I think we've done is ens subdomains. So my Twitter username is Carlini 8 dot PCC dot efe for example, which is my wallet, my identity, my favorite project, my favorite chain. It's profile picture in my username. It's useful because you can search dot PCC dot ETH on Twitter and effectively do a better ape follow apw because you can just type it in and you see the whole community there. And also it can be integrated into web two APIs. So if you if anyone's on our Discord, they can get a hint of any PCC that they aren't following. And also they'll get a list of fake PCCs because people saw that, you know, there's about 450 to 500 dot PCC dot ETH on Twitter. And people saw that this was happening and they could get for it. 150 to 500 Free followers, so they just put .pcc.eth. And our bot now tells you when you follow the fake person who's just trying to get on the system, so you can then go and unfollow it, you know, personally, you know if people want to do it, yeah, promoting us. But some people it really got to like, they're like, Oh, I feel like I've been tricked. So we've just given them the possibility to unfollow.
NFT projects adopting ENS Domains
That's amazing. Yeah, I haven't seen too many other people a project sort of adopt the ens. subdomains. Why do you that is do you think it just hasn't caught on yet? But it will? Or is it some other reason?
The way ens do it natively is kind of pointless, in my opinion for us. So it's not. It's not pointless for an ENS subdomain owner. But it is pointless for a project and NFT project because what what they currently do when you subdomain them is they just make more NFTs. So if, if we did it that way, and you got Zeneca dot PCC dot ETH, you can then sell that separately, you could sell your PCC and still keep DNS subdomain. So we had to build a custom resolver which attaches that subdomain to a cat. So technically, I don't own my subdomain my cat does. And if I send that cat anywhere, the subdomain follows. And that's the most powerful part of it all for projects. Because what that is, is proof of ownership. It proves that you are in that club, because if you if I am carlini8.pcc.eth, on Twitter, and someone's trying to impersonate me. And they don't say that as the wallet. That should raise I know it won't raise replace because of the space we're in. And you know, people don't often think too much. But that should be a red flag. Because yeah, that is not my wallet. And when when a subdomain is sort of hexagon on Twitter when you can hexagon, your username, which I'm sure will come eventually. That is so much harder to fake. Like, I can't remember if you've still got it. But you had the apron. There's an academy background. Yeah, fake.
I just minted it. Yeah. Paid like $50 in gas. X hexagon.
Yeah. If you wanted to do that with a subdomain, you'd have to own a similar one, like PCs. Ah, quite good. Because it's hard. But you know, if you had an L, you could put a cover, right? Well, yeah. Okay, one or something like that. But you would actually have to own the ENS domain to then create this subdomain to then trick people.
And it is so cool.
It is it is good. And we've seen people start to try recently. There have been a couple that have just taken it completely, and that's fine. I think line 50 of our contract says this should work for all ERC 721, feel free to use that. Because our philosophy is if someone else takes it, and maybe they improve it, we then take it back. You know, it's just a community constantly upgrading this thing. We've seen, I think, top dog beach club recently put out but they took, it looks like they took our contract and took out the powerful part to make it instead of costing $6. It now costs $3 to mint. And I think what they've done is they've half the minting, but now you meant something completely pointless, because if you own one of their NFTs, anyone that I mean, anyone with an Ethereum address, can mint a name to you? So I trolled our dev because he owned one of their cats. And I sent message lover.td BC. And I minted that to him via the contract, because he's not the biggest fan of matters. And they will reply to he minted eth Maxi to me. Yeah, I was fine with that. Yeah. So So you know, some people will change it to fit their needs. And we thought about it. The pros and cons, massively. And cyber kongz, for example, have announced they're going to do it. And our Dev was I've worked with him on NFT boxes. So we were talking about it. He said I'm going to do it this way. And I said please don't. I've thought about this for literally months at this point, taking away the main point and after, you know, some pretty deep chat. See, he accepted and I think that it's out so he's always going to add something cool and different. But fundamentally, it will be pretty similar when it comes out I think.
That's I mean, it's always cool to see other people adopting something that you've created and put out there for other people to use and build upon. build upon. I think that's kind of the web three ethos
litmus test is always imagine if bored apes did it. How many .bayc See overnight? Over 2000 using a week, maybe five? Yeah, it was spread like wildfire. And again can't be faked. So yeah. People who just by verified Twitter accounts, and then just, you know, they're 16 They've got a YouTube account with one mil followers, and suddenly they're liking everyone's posts. They wouldn't get well, they'd still get traction.
Free mint meta thoughts
Yeah, unfortunately, but maybe a little less. What do you think about this whole free mint meta we are in just changing directions a bit?
I think it's fun. You know, people are enjoying it. But yeah, key part People always forget, is it's only free at mint yes. Like, I remember lots of you know, reading the comments back in the day about Bluetooth when he was defending that it was free. Yes. But everyone who bought the top got wrecked. Yeah. And my thinking here is it's not going to last a long time because people are just losing money, because there are very few that are going to make it and that's that's just proven every day because there are there are so many and the team have no money. They have no incentive to stick around. There's there's nothing to build on. All they've done is free minted in a day. Now, there are multiple exceptions. There are there are big projects that are now going free mint purely because they want people involved and they don't actually need the money. So we were working with for quite some time. Geno's big town chef. Yeah, they changed the free mint but this is they are completely separate. So like this meta, I would say they had been building for a long time, had, you know, had a price point and change to free mint, because of sort of the ecosystem now? And they can they have the team and they will keep keep building? They're not? Oh, do it, you know? Yeah, just some artist who's put it all together. And that is definitely just to move on. And the goblins and sort of kickstarted at all, they are clearly very different. This has all been they must have been working for months on this. And then then just put it out to the world who whoever it is be someone who knows. The BAYC founders, someone who knows people, someone who knows, can't remember which, which sort of code base that was that was mentioned, seen lots of theories. Yeah,
it's I can't wait to find out more. Just because I think
they would you reveal if it got to this stage? It's
really good question.
We literally talked about them, because we don't know who it is. Yeah. Yeah.
I think that could continue. Yeah, it's there's so many sort of parallels to BAYC. Because, you know, they were anon for a really long time or pseudonymous. And the only thing people really knew were their, you know, screen names or the Twitter profiles. And then I guess the thing is, the whole azuki thing happened, like, I don't know, what, two months ago, less than two months ago, and it's like two people just forget, it's like this is well, I mean, as we keep floors 10 So I mean, maybe that doesn't really say much. It's like, maybe people don't care, I guess. Yeah, I would, I would probably try not to reveal as long as possible if I was them. Just it sort of, unless they they have a real need to it seems to be working for them. Unless they are. I mean, I really did. They're not Yuga unless they are like some massive name that will get people hyped. It's like the expectations are so high now that if they come out and be like, oh, yeah, you know, we launched a couple of projects that failed or you know, we've been around and whatever this is our first project I don't think people are going to be so thrilled and excited. It's like this whole mystery
it needs to be super code as a voice they don't meet expectations at this point. Yeah,
it's insane Oh, that would be wild. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know it's going to be curious. Follow and see. Yeah, but it's fun like do you do the first thing you said it's like this whole free mint meta I think started because they came out they were free mint. There were a fun meme Project that kind of shook the just the bearishness off for a little bit, you know, people were sort of down and depressed and then just having fun. And I think people are still having fun except now unfortunately, more and more people are losing money because these these, effectively Rug Pull Free mint projects are popping up and disappearing within a few days and taking this the secondary market, just hot potato and even more so than usual. It's normally pretty hot potato in nfts. But this is next level,
Advice for the next bull run
I guess in like, back in the day of last year, at least there was hope that the team who were taking your money would then use that to build something. Whereas right now these free mint are taking in nothing and they're getting some from royalties, but the majority of them aren't, you know, the majority aren't breaking, 1000 Ethereum and volume, which at 10% would be 100 eth, which, you know, is what a couple of people's salary for a few months if they were to, I don't think that's any free mints intention really at this point. Because they're all just quick churn them out. If one sticks, that's the one work one of the many. But let's get is my view. Again, a couple of exceptions, but that's the majority of it. And all of that volume is not a free mint. They're just buying it. Yeah. Why not? Why not mint a higher class project that has a chance, which is where, which is where we all made, made our money back in the day, I guess you would buy an NFT that you trusted the team of? And then it turns out they kept building until the biggest bull run in NFT history. Yeah, we we did well, purely because the team stuck around the majority of teams that were still building when the bull run came. did well.
Yeah. Gives gives me hope for the next Bull Run. That's going to be wild.
It should it should be good because NFTs won't be a question at that point. I guess it depends how the Bull Run How is it crypto? Or will it be an NFT lead bull run. Will something happen? We'll we'll see. Epic take up NFTs in fortnight in a way. I think NF T's probably need to rebrand stop calling them NF T Yeah. And something else and sort of digital assets. Web three our way in web three in 2018. No one said it wasn't every Fred's says web three. point down. Yeah, it was an amazing rebrand.
It's yeah, it's gonna be it's gonna be wild when when, when not if the next Bull Run happens. I think as you sort of said NFTs are their inevitable they're like established that no one's sort of questions anymore, whether they're a thing or will be a thing. It's like every big brand is now coming into NFTs every everyone understands the power of the ability to own digital assets. It's just, it's mind blowing, while I say everyone, but still a tiny percentage of the world. But more and more people are coming around to it, which is exciting.
And the key thing that everyone here now will take into that next bull run mostly won't be your assets. It will be your experiences of NFTs ahead of everyone else when they are drawing. So yeah, if anyone's listening to this now and you joined in early 2021, I have been building my NFT knowledge for years. And then you came in to quit my equity exit liquid. However, I was other people's exit liquidity in 2017. So you in 2023 2024 listener, it could be you accidentally someone else.
It's just the cycle of life, right? Just how it goes on.
And that's, you almost have to experience it as well, just because like, everyone was too euphoric. I sense that but I was selling far too early. I ruined my mess. The ball run up massively because I was like, this is in the top for months.
I heard. I heard someone say something, which is it seems so true to me. It's like you really need three. It's a third crypto bull run that people really make the big bucks generally because the first one people get too greedy. And then they ride. They just hold and then the bear market kills them. The second one because they happen they get too too timid. And they say okay, as soon as it starts going out and taking profit and taking profits and I missed the crazy exponential gains. And as the third one that when you've had all that experience and you've seen the patterns and you've seen what happens you stop being a bit smarter and Yeah, so
So the third NFT bull, I've done it wrong both ways.
Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
I could talk to you about NFTs for hours and hours and hours. But we do have to wrap the podcast up. I wanted to just throw it back to you. Is there anything that we haven't touched on that you want to mention anything about? Purrnelope's? any any plugs, any shoutouts? Anything that you'd like people to hear? Oh, no.
I guess I'm just gonna, I'm gonna plug subdomains I'm gonna do it. lobby your favorite founders to get subdomains we've got a resolver contracts out there. People can top here. Let's get let's get rid of dot eth. And let's get your subdomain Project dot etj everywhere. your brand, your favorite project eth it's get all over to it, and then you start. It's honestly where I'm most excited right now. Because you can do things like truly build a community we can do daily, sort of the cool cats quest type things where you go in, you click Start a transaction, you click request that you know by this point, everyone knows all requests, they've just clicked through the transaction. But what if that was going like 10 other dot PCC dot ETH tweets, what you're doing is you're you're making your community talk to each other more, they get to know each other better, they form friendships better, and you're really building it from the bottom up. And I think every project should be doing that. And I want to see all the cool things that others do with it that I haven't thought of. or more, more accurately, our dev who is actually the smart one hasn't fought. And just see where where that can go.
I love it. I love it. I'm thinking about subdomains for Zen Academy now and I'm gonna talk to the smarter people than me and see how we can make that work. Alright, so lobby your favorite project for subdomains. We'll have links in the description. We'll get the contract and you know if anyone wants to look into it, or share it with the smart devs then find it in the show notes. But thank you so much Carlini. This has been a pleasure. Gotta get you back on sometime in the future because again, we could talk for hours and hours but just really appreciate your time.
Thanks for me on very fun.
Amazing. Have a good one.