Carlini8: There wasn't any opportunity like there is now
where you can take Ethereum, do stuff with it and have more
Ethereum. That's generally what people in the NFT space are
doing. They're trying to make ETH. Most tokens aren't launched
legally. And I think that will be a big problem for projects as
well. Because, like I've said earlier, the team is the
important bit, you know, pretty much the outside image of your
NFT project right now is all about Twitter. And this is just
a very powerful way to get your community interacting more on
Twitter. Every community with this would interact more.
Valerio: What's up everyone? Welcome to a another show
another episode on the Talkenized Show. I'm your host,
Valerio. I'm here with Konrad. What's up? Konrad?
Konrad: Hi, hello.
Valerio: And I'm very happy for today's episode, because today's
guest is a OG. He's been into the NFT space since four years
now since 2017. And he's the founder of the Purrnelope's
Country Club. What's up, James? What's up Carlini? Thank you so
much for taking the time and joining us today.
Carlini8: All right. Thanks for having me on.
Konrad: I'm super, super happy to have you, man and to talk
about your background and about your current project and about
your general view on web three. So to get started, Carlini, can
you give us a short introduction for anyone who doesn't know you
yet? Well? Who are you and what you do right now?
Carlini8: Yeah, sure. So Carlini 8. I've been in NFTs since 2017.
crypto. I'm not actually sure, because I mined very briefly
some bitcoin. And all I know is I did it in my old house, which
I lived in 2013 2015. And that's a few that had drovers a few
weeks ago. And I kind of got trolled out of mining Bitcoin,
because I was told, Oh, you're, you're a millionaire. Yeah. And
then I checked, like, overnight, I'd mined 4 P worth of bitcoin
at the time or something like that. Four pence, probably about
six cents.
Konrad: You mined six cents worth of bitcoin,
Carlini8: overnight, like every night, I guess So I, I used my
gaming PC to mine. And it was when I wasn't using it, you
know, it's just like idly mining overnight. And it was not very
powerful. So it didn't do much, but it was probably at the time
costing me costing me money and electricity. But that that hard
drive was wiped many times and it wouldn't have been much. And
then 2015 is where my smaller purchases started happening in
crypto. And I was mainly when I when I started getting bigger
buyers, I was mainly interested in ETH just because I like that
you can do stuff like you know, bitcoins great for starting all
of this and for what it represents and what it can do.
monetarily, but that that didn't really interest me and never
brought me in it was more the the utility I guess of Ethereum.
They're just hooked me in and full, full blown degens since
2017, pretty much
Konrad: all right. So so what what are you doing at the
moment?
Carlini8: So currently I run Purrnelope's Country Club. It's
a 10k PFP NFT projects. But we're just trying to I guess do
it right. So I've been in NFTs. Pretty much since you know, they
weren't mainstream. There are a couple couple projects before I
came in, but certainly not many people. So I've seen how NFTs
have changed and where we expect them to go. And back in 2017. We
had where we expected them to go. And we've sort of seen how
we've progressed towards that. And I just want to sort of
utilize the technology with a project as best as possible,
which I guess are our main current utility we have that
shows that our Fiza ens subdomains where each cat is
able to claim a dot PCC dot ETH domain for free, which is just
like an ens domain instead of dot ETH. You get .pcc.eth But
it's also free because you get it from us who have paid for it
PCC dot ETH. And that becomes your wallet. And it can be it
can turn your username into a profile picture. And just even
little things like I can't search for all of the users on
Twitter who have a Purrnelope's as Country Club profile picture.
But I can search .pcc.eth go click on people, and it shows me
everyone that has that in their name. So it's, we we've actually
got something coming that sort of links that to discord as
well. And that will just be showing even more. So how this,
this can be pushed, because you've effectively got your
digital identity linked over Ethereum, Twitter and discord.
And we can do lots of things. Once that's all linked up. Yep.
Konrad: And can you link your NFT to any social media profile
like Facebook, Instagram, and so on, or limited by something?
Carlini8: When I say linked, it's bad centralized, I guess.
So that's not on Ethereum. And that's with a bot, were able to
search using the Twitter API, they just got API, and then
Ethereum to check the subdomain. So for what we're planning to
do, you could you could probably do the same for Instagram and
Facebook, but it would just be integrating with their APIs.
Konrad: All right. Makes sense.
All right. When did you guys start with with PCC with the
project?
Carlini8: We started building it towards the end of March last
year. So we started over a year ago now, but we mint. I think we
started minted in June.
Konrad: All right, how did the launch go? How to demand go.
Carlini8: It was slow, because at the time, we were completely
anonymous. Because I was working for NFT boxes before it started
NFT boxes were my co founder Pranksy December 2020. And I
ended up in March selling my half of NFT boxes to him. But
that was there was lots of sort of legal loopholes, we had to
jump through and all these sort of things. So ended up taking
maybe four months to sort that out. And I didn't think it was
the right two people at the time for what I was working on NFT
boxes, we couldn't tell them why I wasn't or that I wasn't. So it
didn't seem right that we were like, Hey, I'm launching this as
well. So we're anonymous until the sale was confirmed. And as
soon as the NFT boxes sale was confirmed. We unanoned as a team
said, Hey, this is us. We sold out in a couple of hours.
Konrad: And how did you initially come up with an idea
of PCC? Was it your own idea? Or did you have a team because it.
Carlini8: So we are a team of three of us at the start. One
who had come from Box NFT boxes with me, the community manager
who was part time but wanted sort of a full time stable job
because this was I guess, not bang in the middle of lockdowns
and COVID. But they were sort of coming back it was January to
March 2021, you know, a bit unstable and just wanted to be
locked down in in a solid job. So that wasn't something I could
offer NFT boxes, someone else who I was going to bring over to
NFT boxes is to sort of sort that side of things out as well,
who I got to quit a job brought him with me. So that's 3.
And we originally had a couple of ideas on what we wanted to do
was take my side of NFT boxes, I worked with the community and
sort of made made the things work, I guess, like the website
and the contracts, I'd find the right people for that. And we
wanted to make sure it's community focused. And our
original idea was sort of to try and help creators. Like you guys
have a podcast, we would come in with some sort of NFT rewards
that would kind of build in Patreon or Twitch subscriptions.
You know how to Twitch their badges after six months in a
year and two and three years. Why aren't they NFTs? So we're
gonna go down that line. And I told these two guys, like, I'll
fund it for a year and we'll see where we are Ah, and we were
sort of going down that route. And then someone said, How are
we going to make money? So I don't know. Hopefully find it.
If he said, at the end of the year, what happens? Do I have to
find a job, I don't believe properly unless you know, we've
got VC funding or get bought out or something like that. And he's
like, I want to make money. I want, I want this to be a job.
And by I want to make money, that's more I want that to be a
salary for me. So we just looked, you know, the matter at
the time was 10k, PFP. And then we sort of amended our plans
like, right, how can we take the 10k PFP and push that towards
community and sort of, in effect doing it right. And you can see
sort of on chain, how we've spent the Ethereum from the
original sale, most of which went into a kitty vault now
worth over 1000 Ethereum, which is 200 ETH of more than our
wholesale. So we've sort of created this community pot
that's bigger than all of the money we've taken in, which sort
of just shows it's not a meant and make us rich, it's a meant
and build for the community.
Konrad: All right. They understand. Previously, you
mentioned your launch, right. Your initial launch was in May
last year, right.
Carlini8: I'm kind of guessing. I was a couple of seconds. And
go to a call. It was 269 days ago.
Konrad: Wow. Almost a year. Right?
Carlini8: Almost 269 days ago, please help me get it was 17 for
July
Valerio: 25. July. Alright.
Oh, quickly. Did you sell out?
Carlini8: It took about a month, I'd say. So it was just very
slowly minting until I was able to because I was originally
Topcat Topcat was running the project. And then as soon as
Carlini eight was running the project, it minted it out in a
few hours. Think it was about a month between those times.
Konrad: All right. What do you mean by running the project?
What did you do differently than than top cat?
Carlini8: I was just called top cat. I couldn't be me. I
couldn't
Valerio: think of all the anonymity and the public name, I
guess. All right.
Carlini8: So people knew they weren't going to get well. They
don't know that I'm going to get wrote quite a high chance that
you know, my my main wallet has 16,000 transactions. It's been
there 1400 days or something like that. And not once in that
time have I scammed anyone. So at that point, you know,
interesting. quite confident.
Konrad: How many pieces Did you sell before you announced that
you are you?
Carlini8: Maybe 2000?
Konrad: Okay, because my question is that at that time,
there were a lot of profile pic projects where a lot of them had
anonymous team and how did you manage the community to like
stay organized because I've been on many discourage during the
time and if a project didn't sell out in like a day or two
people were just panicking all over the place and claim it as a
total scam.
Carlini8: I think I think how that plays out is generally how
do you get a get the community in the first place? So like,
like I said, we were trying to do it right. So we weren't
paying people to promote us weren't paying for tweets. We
weren't, you know, sneakily, underhand, well, maybe not even
underhand, but given these alpha groups, you know, couple of ETH
like, Hey, you start minting you start minting we'll give you
this ETH that ETH you'll get everything half price or
whatever. They start minting sets off some alerts other
people start minting some projects, even their own, their
own NFT is you know, they just get a few 100 ETH mint a few
1000 yourself sets off the alerts yourself. Away you go.
You're just giving yourself money effectively at that point
with a little bit of gas fees. Oh, well. So we were just
totally you know, I guess upfront, not paying for hype.
And I've seen quite a lot of people trying to do it you know,
that way and struggle if you don't follow the matter of the
time. You will you will find it hard in this space because there
are some excellent marketers They've come into this space.
And the problem is that's really where their talents lie. Maybe
one or two people on the team are just really good at creating
the hype and marketing. But then there's no one to execute once
is minted. And we're just seeing so many so many projects, I
think a couple of months ago, I looked back at a certain day,
last year, I think it was the day it was it was a year before.
And there were these calendar projects that used to just put
out here, today's mints, and I just looked at every project,
and two was still active. Ish. One, I kind of ignored art
blocks because there was an art block summit that day. And in
reality, that's just art and art blocks is a platform. But
everything else there was was maybe nine or 10 projects that
hadn't tweeted this year, there was no discord activity, maybe
half of them their websites were deleted. But the one the one
year, the one year renewal of their website hadn't been
continued.
Konrad: Alright. So what makes it project being like long term
because I would say that if you're running it for a year
now, we can call the success because as you said, like you've
seen many projects starting the same day and just dying out. So
how do you survive for this market, which is, I wouldn't say
saturated, but there are a lot of new projects coming in every
day. And there's huge noise in the space.
Carlini8: It's it is the team, at the end of the day, because
if the team keep building, that project is still alive, the may
not be many holders, the floor may be basically zero. But when
they can tweet, something, like we've been here, two years
building, we've done this, that and the other, the the only
problems can come down to their funding, if if they just you
know, end up having to, if they just gotta go get a job, because
this, this project isn't paying them or whatever. But as long as
the team are going to stay around the there's always a
chance, right? So the projects where the teams leave, they're
done. They like they just can't be revived. There's no reason I
know, there are NFTs and anyone can spin up a site and build a
game around that NFT that they've said that says the
crypto kitties days, it was like build, they even back then they
tried to pay people to build on top of crypto kitties, very
small amounts compared to now because you know, the money
involved in crypto was so much lower than but they, it just, it
just never works. Because why would anyone put in a lot of
effort for someone else's product, when if they're going
to build something, they could just sell their own their own
avatars, or land or whatever it is that works within the game
card games. And it's just very tricky to make that work. So
really, the lifeblood of every NFT project is running like a
business. Because the will of course, be art, you know,
artists aren't expected to do, you know, make a game or
anything like that. They just keep creating art. And it's very
much its own category. But I'm talking about the projects that
should be run as a company. If the team keep going, they can
always build a community around it, it's it's harder. It's
always easiest at mint because you get in, you build up that
height because Mint is coming. But the the rugs will be when
when a team member leaves when the team leaves, it's it's just
done at this at this period of time, maybe, you know, maybe in
five years time, maybe even less, we'll see we'll see time
where a community really has built up around a project. And
they can survive without a team. All right, but we're not there
yet.
Konrad: And even if the team like comes back, like a couple
of weeks after because that's what what we're seeing with some
of the projects that are not started like this year 2022 that
the team is gone. And then like a month later, like the founders
is saying on Twitter. Hello guys. I'm back. Let's do it
again. But I guess it's not the same anymore. Right.
Carlini8: And I'm sure that definitely has nothing to do
with the guys who have gone to prison for a few years for
effectively just straight rocking. So oh, if we if we
quickly go back now maybe they won't think we wrote them and we
were just incompetent.
Konrad: It's true that he announced his comeback like a
couple of days afterwards. Yeah, it was fun. Um But what exactly
do you mean by, you know, keeping a project life? What do
you mean by by building? How do you do keep the project alive?
That's the main question do you focus on, on providing value in
some way providing utility on a on a long term basis constantly?
Or how do you keep a project alive?
And all that sort of thing, because usually, when you start
a project you've had you have the vision, and the direction
you want to go into. And you can call the donor Combinator, like
milestones. So if you accomplish them, how do you come up with
new ideas that you want to execute?
Carlini8: Well in for new goals in this space, normally, it's
just, you know, spend 1819 hours a day on Twitter. And then as
soon as some cool new stuff happens, you see it and you're
like, right, how can I? Can we use that? Can we improve that.
So even even just recently, OWL from cyberkongz, the Dev has
released a guardian contract, which is effectively unchained
two factor authentification, you can set it up so that you can
have your NFT in a hot wallet. But you can only move it or do
certain things with it. If you then sign a transaction from a
different hardware wallet, which means you can use it in a game.
But you can't be scammed out of that NFT, unless you go to your
hardware wallet that you've locked away. And you you know,
you put somewhere far enough away that while you're walking
to it, you think should I really be doing this is this person
really not stealing my ape. So you just got to be ready for
whatever that new next thing is. I think NFT worlds have changed
that as well. Just because they're building effectively on
the most played game in history, Minecraft, they're sort of the
underlying layer. But the battle hardened code that's underneath
it, they've added their own token, and they're allowing
communities to come around a game effectively, the game that
has to be built by the devs. So that's another angle lots of
projects. Now we're building a game in NFT worlds are all of
these different sort of ones that are building up. But in it,
the I guess the answer is always different for different
projects, because they will all have their own little different
goals. And for us, it's to use that NFT to the best of its
ability. So I do think the ens thing that I'd mentioned
earlier, I think that's one of the greatest NFT utilities at
the moment. And it is kind of confusing to me why everyone
isn't copying us. I would just expect people to see it. I know
we're quite small, like not diluted that you know, we're one
of the projects that people will be keeping eyes on all the time.
But it it should have, I feel like he should have twigged in a
couple of founders minds maybe it's just not high on their
priority list and it's on their to do list or whatever. But
really, whatever the project is building to so if you're if it's
a story we've seen with cyber brokers, they've had missions
over the past week every day, and that's built up to a reward
which I think is a mecca arm but that's clearly then building to
something so there's some kind of story going on their bored
apes are coming out with their land azuki did their in real
life. Check your wallets drop. doodles going down the non
dilutive, non dilutive, get everyone in somehow route which
is going to be very interesting to see how they do that. So it's
just all these projects coming up with their own ways to bring
value to their community. And when there's a winner, I think
we'll see a lot of people following
Konrad: all right, what by the way, what what do you think is
the biggest advantage of holding a .pcc.eth domain like what what
makes you so so confident that you're wondering yourself why
other founders haven't?
Carlini8: It's it's not .pcc.eeth. It's dot anything dot
Eve. So I'm not saying dot PCC dot ETH is the greatest thing
ever. I'm saying the concept itself is great. For example, we
see we see new ba YC new azuki with founders Every day, they're
all verified. They're all tagging us on Twitter. If their
username was.ba yc.eth something.ba, YC dot eth. That
would be unchained verification that they're real. It's a bit
like the hexagon on Twitter. But it's a username. So it would, it
will cut out that sort of scamming. And you don't need to
ask them for their wallet. So if you're doing a deal with someone
that's pretending to be whatever dot bayc dot eth, and they say,
oh, actually send it to this other wallet, that should set
off alarm bells, because they've publicly said this is their
wallet. Why are they wanting to send this somewhere else? It's
clearly a scam. And it's, it's just the other integration as
well. So we were going to be able to give people a slight
nudge to use dot PCC dot ETH on Discord and Twitter. And that
itself is powerful marketing. For a project like us, it would
be even bigger for a bigger project, if suddenly you have
like, there's no doubt in my mind that if bored apes did it
before 1000 people on Twitter with Dot BaYC, dot Eth, within a
week. And just seeing those all over Twitter, the ability to
search, eight, follow eight would be so much stronger. And
right now, NFTs are marketing really, when we when we get down
to it.
Konrad: But why would I not be able to just change my username,
for example, also to dot, I don't know to Valerio dot baYC
dot eth
Carlini8: like that won't work.
Konrad: But for Twitter, to change your username, you don't
need to link it to your wallet, right? It's only for the hexagon
profile.
Carlini8: I'm fully expecting some form down the line with
Twitter a verification. So you know how they've recently added
the links with the little blue ticks. If they're a real link,
they verify that links aren't a scam. Alright.
Konrad: I'm not sure if I knew a bit about this,
Carlini8: it's pretty new a few days, I've just got Twitter
open. So I'll just send you I haven't seen as well in the
discord. Just next to links, there's a green circle with a
white ticket. And I fully expect they are able to verify that an
NFT you own an NFT. And it shouldn't be too much of a leap
for them to be able to verify that you own a subdomain. So I
think very quickly that will become a searchable proof of
ownership because you can only have that if you own for us you
can only have dot PCC dot ETH if you own a Purrnelope, and you
cannot fake like with an NFT. You can you can just mentor
bored ape and get a hexagon. You can you know you can just mentor
on open see just a picture of it is obviously fake. But Twitter
will verify exists an NFT. Whereas we've got PCC dot ETH
you cannot verify that the only way to verify it is by actually
having it. So when that when their version of a hexagon be
that a tick or I don't know, colorful semi circle around it
or something like that. That will be sort of the gold
standard of not getting scammed, I think.
Konrad: All right, interesting. So So basically, you think that
in some time that it's possible to change your username, I mean,
similar to the profile pic, right? Where you connect to your
wallet, and then obviously the domain. I mean, it's everything
on chain, right? So it's easy to prove, and verify if you
actually own it. And then you're actually able to change your
user name to whatever if you own whatever domain you own, similar
to the profile pic. Alright.
Carlini8: And that's sort of short term thinking as well. If
you go, you know, long term, pie in the sky, which often people
talk about when thinking about NF. TS, you know, logging into
your email with your subdomain, your your web free version of
email, whatever that is logging into Facebook, Instagram, even
Twitter itself. This could be done via your wallet. And your
wallet is your subdomain. It's snow. It's how your wallet is
represented, I guess. But you will be logging in as this. This
subdomain for everything in the long term.
Konrad: i It's very interesting because I was always asking
myself I could just as you said earlier, I could use CTRL S like
a bored eight, right? Safe, safety picture and just just
meant it. And then I own the NFT. It's not the official one,
but I still own on the NFT and can upload it to as a hexagon on
Twitter. And on the first site, it's a bored ape. Right? And I
don't think all people, I don't think everyone actually clicks
on it, and then scrolls down and checks if all right, it's the
official collection and stuff. Usually, it's just the first for
sidebar people are
Carlini8: never I've never checked a hexagon, ever. I've
never, I didn't even know you didn't know you could. So now
I'm having to scroll. And yeah,
Konrad: I did a couple of times, but I don't think I'm I think
I'm the minority. But yeah. I mean, most people are lazy, so
so that they will just see the bored ape. And they're like,
alright, it's official one. But but that's super, super cool,
actually. And I've never thought about that. Well. So I guess
we'll see it. Soon that other projects start implemented
something like this,
Carlini8: we were already kind of alpha, I guess we're already
confirming real Twitter Usernames, we have a bot coming.
haven't actually no one in the community knows. So this is, you
know, fresh info for them. But there's a bot coming that will
check discord, check Twitter, and check the subdomains
registered. And if they all match, you will be able to get a
role in the discord. And also, there'll be a leaderboard that
shows how many of these verified people you follow. So in a way,
you're pushing, you know, ape follow ape, there's no way
there's no reason to put that tweet out. Because we literally
have this leaderboard, showing who we're incentivizing people
to go and follow the rest of the community. And that just, you
know, pretty much the outside image of your NFT project right
now is all about Twitter. And this is just a very powerful way
to get your community interacting more on Twitter,
every community with this would interact more. So our
percentage, you know, might be quite small, and we're starting
from a small place. But again, as a concept, if doodles did
this, how, how much would that explain the community? You know,
these sorts of things?
Konrad: Interesting. Yeah. I don't know if you have anything
to add here, but do you
know, no, I just wanted to move to another topic. If we're long
with it.
I would like to talk a little bit about the background first.
Valerio: So finally, yeah, yeah, sure. It's
Konrad: alright. Yeah, so your background Carlini. So you said
you got into crypto 2013 started mining on your gaming PC? What?
How old were you at the time? 2014.
Carlini8: If I had to guess it was probably 2014 as was mining,
I was in that house 2013 2015. And it was probably in the
middle of 2014. I was 24. It's easier, just add 10 to the
whatever you were in.
Konrad: Alright, all right. And like what background did you
have before that? Do you do you have a college degree do you do
come from a technical background?
Carlini8: So I went to I went to uni and I did maths and biology.
After I graduated, I went to a DNA testing company, using the
biology side of things for a few years. But while I was there, I
started gambling in my spare time, and it was gambling with
its it started off with something called match betting
where you you kind of play the odds. And no matter what
happens, you make a profit you you bet on every outcome. And
you know, I talked about that for hours but in a way I gambled
for a living in a way that is mathematically viable. It wasn't
I wasn't a degen and I was I was actually running a business. And
that got so big that I was actually losing money going to
work. So I had to I had to say to my boss I look I'm sorry,
I've got a quick I used I kept getting like promoted and moved
up all right.
Konrad: But again, again, you need to go more into detail. So
that was after after graduating college uni and then working for
a DNA DNA company and then next to that you start a gambling
match match betting what exactly how does it work?
Carlini8: So, in I guess in a quick rundown Is gambling
companies want you to gamble with them, there's a lot of
competition to gamble. So they want you to pick them over any
of their competitors. So they give you an offer, hey, deposit
100 pounds, and we'll give you 100 pounds of fake money. And
you have to do a certain amount of gambling until you can
withdraw any money. So I use the math side of things to figure
out, right is this offer worth doing. So I've put in 100
pounds, I now have 200 pounds, but I have to gamble 2000
pounds. So I worked out if I should, if I would make money
doing that. And normally, they would make it profitable for
you. Because even without you thinking about it, if you were
just gambling on random stuff, they're making it so that you
should win originally, you get hooked. And then eventually you
give it all back and more to them. So that's their play. So
they, they effectively try and make you win early. hook you in.
So horrible practice is really destroyed some lives. But if you
just take the good part of that offer, if you take the bit where
they're making it so that you should win, and then leave and
then repeat with another company and then repeat with another
company. And then you know, just keep keep going. And that was
effectively where it all started. And then that grew into
quite a big business. All right, quit I quit my job in 2015 and
was a gambler until effectively COVID.
Konrad: So karma really were you making per month as a
professional gambler.
Carlini8: It did vary based on the we're always December was
always a good month, because companies would put out
effectively advent calendars where every day, they would put
out an offer. And it was really busy because he had to go
through all the sites and figure out which company had actually
put out a good offer and which one a terrible offer. Because
they weren't all just because their offers didn't mean they
were worth doing. And also throughout the time period. I
was I got progressively better at it. But at the same time the
gambling companies made it harder and harder. So it's like
an all way always a battle to innovate and sort of move on. I
my peak, I was probably making 50,000 pounds a month
Konrad: how many dollars are that? Approximately?
Carlini8: 70,000 pounds 65. Almost exactly. 65. And that's
because that's gambling as well in the UK gambling is tax free.
Which is a shame that crypto and NFTs are classed as gambling
because I'll tell you if you're listening Boris or Rishi, I am
gambling
Konrad: and how many hours a day were we working on your gambling
Carlini8: It was quite it was quite a lot it was. So I was in
business?
the mindset that I wouldn't get another opportunity like this in
life and I really had to you know, really grasp it while I
could. So I was I was working. You know, most of the time
before I had kids, it was you know the only other thing I
really did was spend time with my wife and sometimes sometimes
go out and then when I had kids I did it less because I spend
more time with them. That's another good thing I was always
at home to to help out and see them. But yeah, the mindset was
work all the time. But obviously I had lazy periods. But I just
wanted to go for it while I could. But slowly NFTs kind of
took over so I was I was gambling during 2017 NFTs 2018
NFTs 2019 NFTs because the money just wasn't really there. Like
the the NFT market you guys have experienced I would have never
kept gambling. If that was what it was like it was so bad that I
was making I was making money gambling to put into NFTs
because I believed in NFTs but I was not making money in NFTs
Konrad: I mean it makes sense for you to squeeze out
everything you could but at what point and how do you find about
crypto because if you're working all the time, like how did you
find it?
Carlini8: I found it when I found gambling ish when I found
match betting because I was always you know, I don't even
really fully know how I found match betting. So I did the
match betting concept on my own just before I sort of found it I
did it. And I was like, this should be a thing. So I kind of
went looking, found it. And at the same time, people were using
Bitcoin to move money around. So I'd done some research into
crypto. But the thing about crypto then is you could only
really to make to make money two or three ways you could trade.
And I was not a trader, and trading takes losses to learn,
you could found and, you know, I just found crypto, I couldn't
build something or raise any money or do anything like that.
Or you could just hold it. And that's just parking money. And
you're always just hoping it goes up. Obviously, you can go
back in time, and no, it goes up. But there wasn't any
opportunity like there is now where you can take ethereum do
stuff with it and have more Ethereum i That's generally what
people in the NFT space are doing. They're trying to make
ETH, which you couldn't do back then you couldn't I mean, some
people did. But it wasn't common. So I always knew of
crypto when a couple of days ago guess match betting groups where
they had like minded people. And a couple of them were getting
into crypto. So I can't remember there was some, some, I think,
weekly report that a couple of friends had bought into that we
all spoke about every week that sort of just kept our eye and
looking for possibilities. Because we we were mainly
looking at it from a bitcoin casino point of view, because if
they started putting good offers on all you have to do is make a
bitcoin address, you know, it was almost unlimited free money.
And unfortunately, they never really, they never really
brought in big office.
Konrad: And you said that right now someone can put eth to make
more eth. So how do you exactly multiply is that you have? And
how much do you need to start with? Because I think that's
also important question.
Carlini8: Well, it's really easy, all you do is you mint one
bored ape for naught point naught eight, if, then you just
hold it, you get you get a dog a mutant, you know, that's fair to
say, if you go ape, it's, you know, it's, it's the NFT Casino.
That's what people are doing. And some people are very good at
it. And they're making a lot of ETH. And some people are just
funding those people. But we do have lots of injection of
Ethereum from people who truly believe in what they're buying.
You have young people spending hundreds of 1000s of ETH on
pieces that they truly believe will be worth lots in 10 years
in 20 years. You know, when when Gary Vee bought loads of punks
for a lot of ETH he's not looking to flip, he hasn't sold
one, his his punks are sitting there waiting for you know when
he's 80 and he can do something with them. Whereas that Ethereum
he put in has gone to someone else to then go back into the
casino. So these these people are bringing in lots of Ethereum
that the true believers, I guess that is just pumping up other
people's bags and letting people then spend that Ethereum and
other projects and and pushing it all up.
Konrad: Alright, and how do you choose the project that you want
to flip? I mean, obviously, like it can vary a lot of things like
hype and Tim, etc. But if someone's looking to Soulages
make a lot of money quickly. What is your criteria?
Carlini8: Well, right now, you've I guess you've got a
feel, feel the hype that certain projects have for the shore
things. For example, I can't remember what is called Moon
Moon owls. The Kevin Rose one I think is minting a 2.5 Ethereum.
And that certainly, that certainly doesn't seem like it
will be a bad buy. But getting onto that whitelist is hard
because everyone thinks it's free Ethereum that sort of
thing. Has a solid team behind it that have delivered multiple
things in their life. And I'm sure that project will do well.
Whereas on the flip side, you have a similar hype level for
things like pick someone. And that was purely marketing. There
was there was no team behind it. There was That was just a
roulette spin. But people effectively got wrong. But some
people actually did flip and revealed before it was seen what
the art looked like. But if more if you're telling people like
how to make money, it needs to be the solid projects. And if
you just, if you just know you want to degen, I guess if you
know that, there's that possibility to lose, then what
you have to do is, secure your profits when you can. And the
hard bit is looking back, I have owned many apes that I've sold.
And I sold them at five ETH, 10 ETH 15 ETH. And I, if you look
back at those, you know, it haunts you, I owned over 100
punks. And I sold them all, you know before, before they breach
10. And then obviously, they went over 100. There is no one
that has perfectly traded any NFT. So you just have to accept
that you won't be perfect. And you're you will if you just if
you go pure degen, and you're gonna hold bags. But also you
will get out of winners too early. There's there's just no
two ways about it. I think mindset is a big thing here.
Konrad: All right. Why did you say earlier that a mint price of
2.5 is doesn't sound like a bad buy.
Carlini8: Because of the project itself, let me try and I can't
fully it's moon birds XYZ. So is by is by Kevin Rose. And the
they founded proof. XYZ, which I last time I checked that the
floor for that was 80 Ethereum. So there's there's a lot of hype
going into it because of what they've already done. Kevin Rose
has done a hell of a lot in his life. And his is co founder I
can't remember what his name is. Ken just trying to have a quick
scroll to for remember, I've listened to their spaces, but I
can't remember his name. They've both done a lot of big deals and
like they could be retired if they wanted to be there. I think
it's a good if you have the opportunity, I think that should
be bought because it very much feels like with the experience
the team have the hype around the project and their ability
2.5 ETH won't be where it stops just comparing it to the other
projects on the market at the moment.
Konrad: Yep. All right. If you're if you're comparing the
NFT let's say the NFT casino to what you did back back almost 10
years ago, right? The gambling business. It was matched betting
right. Match betting means you're betting on a match. It's
a football match, or how do I understand?
Carlini8: Well, just like in, in the simplest terms, a match bet
would be betting on every outcome. So it doesn't have to
be football. But if you're betting on football, you could
bet on win draw and loss. But you you bet on a win with
whatever company you've just signed up to, which then will
allow you to get a free bet from them. So they'll give you a fake
100 pounds, which you can then use later on a second bet. And
then you lay the bet somewhere like Betfair where and a lay
just means not so you would bet on not win with Betfair and you
bet on a win with whatever company it is, but you can also
you can bet on tennis is quite a common one. You know, there are
only two outcomes there. Even even horse racing, you know
people people did it on the Grand National just the other
day because you could if you cover every horse are using
these this free money that they give you, you then have quite
the result at the end although after about a year or so I moved
away from match betting and it was actually the casino side of
things. But it was in a match betting way. I guess running it.
The maths was on my side, but you could go on bad losing runs.
Konrad: All right. And you started math right. So I guess
that helped you with the probability calculations right?
Carlini8: A bit, but the word calculators so it's not like I
was doing stuff on the fly in my head. I was more just keying
stuff into spreadsheets, but just understanding how it
worked. Quite a lot of people who made a lot of money doing
this. Had no idea about the mouse. And they quite often
would get scared after a few months of losing.
Konrad: Alright, interesting. But it's still fair to say that
you were some kind of genius, right? I mean, I mean, you still
are right, but not now. You're a NFT. Genius.
Carlini8: You can't You're not allowed to say that yourself.
Well, no, it's not. I'm not even. I'm not book smarts. I'm
just, I guess, internet smarts. I know. I know, my way around
the internet. Now is what
Konrad: did you did you watch the Netflix movie? There was
like a Netflix movie where there was like a guy from College,
where he was in like, a US college and went to the math
class. And he was like, super good. And then the teacher.
Like, one, yeah. 21. And yeah, and they they played blackjack
and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that was super, super inspiring.
They made tons of money and lost. And lost it. Oh, by the
way, how did your your boss react? When you when you went to
him and told them now? Well,
Carlini8: I, I, I walked up to her. And I said, Can I can I
have a word? And her reply was, Oh, good. You don't have a
letter. Because she was she was a client. So she knew how much I
was making at the time. So like, it wasn't a secret in the office
or anything like that. And my reply to her was, oh, I need a
letter do I? She was so went to the meeting room. And yes, she
just, she knew it was coming and said something along the lines
of, there's no amount of money I can offer you to keep you as the
as I said, not within your budget. We are still friends, I
still went early 2015. So we're coming up to seven years. And
you know, I've, I've had a meal with it this year. A couple of
old work friends I still meet up with
Konrad: All right, so I mean, my original question was, if you
compare the NFT, casino to the, to the gambling business you
did, where do you see connections? What did you learn?
What learnings have you done previously, with your gambling
business? You know, maybe controlling your emotions,
focusing on on demand for the right rational thinking and
stuff? What learnings did you make from your previous
experience that you think, or that you can share with the
community that is interested in let's say, the NFT. Casino?
Carlini8: It was it was mindset, really. Because gambling before
was very mathematical. I knew that if I kept going, I should
make money. It didn't mean that I would. Because when you're
I can see quite easily an NFT being worth, you know, a floor
doing things like to maximize Evie, you take the whole amount
of money. So say I deposited 200 pounds, and I got a 200 pound
bonus, I'd put all 400 pounds on one number on roulette, purely
because that was mathematically the best way to do it. So when
you're just throwing away for throwing away money until you
hit because there are 37 slots on a roulette wheel. So in
theory, I should hit one in 37. You know, that takes a toll on
you if if you just have a bad day, and it's very possible to
go 100 without hitting. And you're just like, oh my god, a
terrible day, you just always think if I'd literally done
nothing today, if I stayed in bed, I'd be so much richer than
I was than I am now. So what a waste of my time I've spent my
time and my effort and I'm down. And I've done exactly what I
should. Now you can't do that in the NFT world because buying
something and expecting it to go up isn't maths, it's not a
formula. It's not set in stone, what should happen. It's more
feeling. But what you can do is you can be in the right mindset
when Cryptos dumping like it is now to just take a step back and
really look is this is crypto a thing? Are we actually going to
still be here in 10 years? And yes, I very, I very much think
it's a certainty at this point. And I think NFTs are in that
space. So if you can handle the ups and the downs of these main
projects that have teams that are staying, that are doing
things that are going to be impactful in a few years. If you
of 1000 Ethereum. Very long term. I can't tell you what one
have the conviction like The people I've known who have made
the most in NFT, since 2017, are those that have gone for a
project and made insane bets on them. So I know Pranksy very
well I got Pranksy into the space. I, I, you know, was in a
slack with Pranksy, pre crypto kitties in 2017. And pranksy, he
had 1250 bored ape or one point and sold most of them on the way
up made, Mises made millions of pounds and is credited for
effectively, very carefully selling them and helping not
crushed the community. Because if it Pranksy just be like,
right, let's list them all. One if you know, that wall just is
never getting crossed. I don't think bored apes make it because
the community wouldn't be as feel good as it was. Because the
community is strong. But it was weaker back then obviously, and
the growth helped strengthen them. And on the flip side, I've
also friends with Jimmy Dot eth, who held a couple of hundreds,
at the same time and sold less and still has maybe 80. And his
conviction just led to you know, we're talking it's a bit crazy
here because we're talking retired for the rest of your
life with an insane budget. And the difference between retired
for the rest of your life and then same budget and a couple of
yachts. So you know, it's it's a ridiculous gap. But it's also
the minimum we're talking about is already huge. So the big
winners, when you look back are always those who buy into
projects that they believe in and stick with them. You know,
cocoa bear is someone else. Snow fro I tried to get him to sell a
zombie crypto punks, zombie for fingers 40 Ethereum, when
Ethereum was maybe $800, it was something like that. And I was
like, Look, you need to sell you've got 30 of them. And he
was going to spend it on real estate which eventually ended up
being a staging place for our block. So I think he's still
happy with the sale because of where it led. But he had so many
posts. So many zombie punks. And it was so hard for me to
convince him to sell one further time the highest sale ever, that
these people just have the conviction and they stick to it
and they make lots of money. I can't tell anyone if that sort
of time period is over.
that's going to be obviously apes are currently leading the
charge and they're your safest bet. But is that how you make
lots of money now? I'm I'm not sure. All right.
Valerio: All right. By the way, talking about apes, I heard that
that you thought that the launch of the ape token that you didn't
think you made a good job on that. Am I right?
Carlini8: I don't like that the apes don't yield the token. Yes,
I think we're releasing our own token for Purrnelope's Country
Club. And I think about token hours a day. And I have maybe
four months at this point, maybe even five or six. And I much
prefer an NFT. That yields a token. Because you're adding
value to the NFT. At this point, apes have two things. They have
the ape token, and they have the NFT. And in my mind, the token
is taking away value from the NF T but the question here is, can
they use the funds they raised from the token to offset that
loss for apes. And for them? They probably can be they can
use the funds to build enough for apes. But I don't think
anyone else can. So if anyone copies them. That's a problem.
And historically, everyone copies apes like there's just no
two ways about it. Someone will try and copy them and they won't
launch on every exchange at the same time the first token ever
to do that. They won't have these these backings providing
the liquidity early on or have the funds to do that and They
will just take their whole projects with a token that
ultimately people don't want. For instance, board apes had
some launched ape with utility, that just doesn't work for any
other projects that you need utility out the gate, or it's
not going to work. Or it's an uphill battle, I guess at that
point, it's much easier to launch with utility than to
launch without it and then try and capture it
Konrad: just allows you launch your own token right now won't
be like the exact steps you will take and what will be the
utility for the token itself.
Carlini8: Wonderful. First step is to do it legally. So I can't
launch it in the UK. So the token is going to be launched in
the British Virgin Isles, there is a company already set up.
Just paid for within arm's reach. When did this the 15th of
December, it was launched that just shows how far back we were
thinking about it. So we can legally launch the token, most
tokens aren't launched legally. And I think that will be a big
problem for projects as well, because like I've said earlier,
the team is the important bit when teams are covered. If
you're successful, you bring more light onto your projects.
And when it's eventually found out that a token wasn't launched
legally and the team is pursued, you know, they might abandon the
project, or they might go to prison, they're not going to
keep working on on this illegally launch token now. So
step one is to launch it legally, which is all sorts of
and step two is to provide the utility. So what what I've done
is I've looked at a lot of other projects that have done similar
things. So Cyberkongz, for example, have a yielding token,
and it was very successful with them, breeding babies sup ducks
had volt. And that went well with the snack shop that they
had. So we'll be launching our tier twos, which is effectively
our, our mutants or our meebit, you know, that sort of level of
the community. And that will be purely, it will be purely in
token. So you can only receive that with token. So people will
be using it to gain that long term will want it in our NFT
world.
Konrad: James James, can you quickly clarify what you mean
exactly by a yield token?
Carlini8: So just normally, every day, you get a little
trickle of the token. So it builds up over time,
effectively.
Valerio: So instead of instead of getting hammered, how much do
they get, like 20 20,000 Apes per per bored ape, right? So
instead of getting all 20,000, you should get them like on a on
a schedule, right? Like, daily or something?
Carlini8: Yes, it's slowly slowly release it. Because if
you have all of the tokens, you're going to get up front,
they did, you know, they sent a lot to the DAO and the DAO is
voting on some sort of token yielding. But they're, they're
doing it where you lock up, ape to get it and the NFT counts as
a key. It's it's a little tricky to talk about now because
something was proposed. And then the apes voted it down. And now
something new is being proposed. And we're not sure if it's
actually going to happen yet. So we don't actually know how
they're doing it. But they're like their AirDrop, for example.
Wasn't that much. wasn't a big percentage. I don't have the
figures in front of me right now. But it was it was maybe 20%
was the airdrop 40% was the DAO and then the rest went to Yuga,
the charity partners and the team I think
Konrad: one more thing I would like to touch on aside from
token is a team which mentioned a lot during this episode. So
how to build a really good team that will stay with you for a
long time. And I second question will be how much money do you
need upfront? Because no one really talks about salaries for
teams. So like, if you'd like to start your own project, how much
would you need to pay them on a monthly basis?
Carlini8: Well, that's that's tricky because when you start
bringing in this in this sort of space, people can be from
anywhere, right? You don't, you don't have to hire around you,
you don't have to hire in the US. You know, even like, none of
the Purrnelope's team, there isn't an office, we don't meet
up everyone's remote. So the team could in theory be from
anywhere. And what you need to do is you need to make sure you
get the right people in the right places, but that doesn't.
That's more about their skills. So you need your community
manager to have web 3 experience, for example, you
need your community manager to know about NF Ts, because that's
who they interact with, you can't have them looking like a
complete noob in front of your community. Whereas say, your
website dev doesn't need to, they can just be a really good
website dev from web two. So there are certain roles where
you can pull in web two, and there are certain roles where
you really need web three. And there are some that you can kind
of cross over, for example, marketing, you, you probably
need at least one person in your marketing team who knows about
web three and is experienced in it. But a really good marketer
from web 2 world or just you know, anywhere can then come in
and bring ideas to help grow your project that way. Salary
wise, it's you, you want to pay people well, you'll be looking
at high end pay. certain roles are very tricky to get. Now you
can even a solidity Dev, what you can do is find a dev in web
two, to learn solidity because depending on your projects, they
there's there's a lot they can look at. So if you're just doing
a 10k PFP, for example, they can look at our project or apes or
doodles and look at their contract because it's all open
source, and see how to do it themselves. And then after
enough time, they become you know, if you've got someone who
really wants to better themselves, they can then learn
enough over that time. Because in reality, there aren't really,
you know, the best Ethereum devs haven't been doing it 10 years
because Ethereum isn't 10 years old. It's more about how quickly
people learn and how willing they are to learn.
Valerio: And it's cheaper like that, right? It's cheaper,
getting a web 2 dev, learn solidity instead of hiring a web
three dev,
Carlini8: it's also easier, yeah, because there are more of
them than there are that already know solidity. And the issue
with solidity. devs is they know how much is going to how much
your NFTs are going to sell for. And that then makes it quite
tricky. Especially if you're mainly putting back into the
community. So like, I think we sold out for $3 million, I think
it was when you at the time and you know, multiply it all out
the 800. If we took in that, you know, maybe 10% of that has gone
on salary, it's without No, probably it will be more than
10% Just you know, thinking about it quickly for a second.
But it's not a huge chunk. Most of it has gone back in and none
of it has gone into anyone's pocket. So you need a team that
will understand it is a company. And most you know web two people
coming into web three would see it as that. Whereas if someone's
been in NFTs quite a long time, they might have seen you know
pudgy penguins, they minted out and sent all the Ethereum to
their own private wallets. Which was a bit crazy at the time. And
for me, that's that's a bit of a red flag and they went on to
then sell the project someone else a few days ago. So fine,
finding a team is hard. you're best off building friends first
building a friendship group thinking who's in, you know who
actually wants to be in this what their skills, place them in
the right place, and then go and find what you don't have the
will you'll never be able to get a group of friends that have
everything. Bored apes, for example, went and found the
artists they didn't even have the ability to create this art
that has become so monumental. They hired in three or four
artists for that. So you just got to play to your strengths
and find what you can in reality to find you can either change
your name on Twitter to is hiring, I see that a lot. So I
assume it works. That's not what I did. Or discord, we found
website 2.0 People just because in one of the channels, one of
the discourse has a NFT Bill doors channel, and they just
posted, hey, we were web devs just looking to do some things.
And I contacted them. And that's sort of how that connection was
made. So it's just been active, sort of living and breathing.
The project, I guess, alright,
Valerio: can you still do that now? Or, or what what would now
be the best and most efficient way to find dev to find artists
to find different people for your team?
Carlini8: If you're looking to launch soon, and you've already
got, you know, a couple of crypto NFT friends, for artists,
honestly, I'd go to Instagram, you know, it's I'd scroll
Instagram, I'd put in some kind of art hashtag. I'd scroll until
I find some art that looks great. And I'd I'd message maybe
20 People have great looking at have some sort of pitch message
that's like, Hey, we're looking to build this. We were looking
for an artist we'd like to what I'd say to them is that we're
looking to have someone involved, we want an artist who
will continue to work on this, you'll probably be skeptical of
NFTs because everyone outside of NFTs hates NFTs is pretty much
how it goes. So I would, I would say look, I'm willing to listen
to all your concerns, artists will probably have the two main
concerns of selling stolen art, which is better than the real
world, which is very annoying, because you only know the art is
getting sold because of the NFT. And it's not most NFTs and it's
no successful NFTs. And the environment, which you can then
talk about the merge is coming and that will make Ethereum so
much better better than paying on a canvas and shipping it
across the world. And then get them involved. Have them as a co
founder Don't say, I mean, if you want to make as much money
as possible, what you do is you you basically screw over the
artist and you say yeah, we'll do it for we'll do a fixed fee,
and you do that. But my artist is Apollo have more now. But at
the time I said look full time job salary. Come on in both,
there was no sort of percentages because we're not splitting it.
We weren't minting and then splitting the cash. But if you
just say, look, you're a co founder you're in. Eventually
you'd find it artists that way is I think, all right,
Konrad: cool. How did you pay your artists a salary if you
didn't launch your project that just with your own money? Or
Carlini8: yeah, so I, I said to these two guys, that I'd fund it
for a year already. Because, you know, as in NFTs and NFTs have
gone crazy. And it's so quite a few and I had money set aside.
So I put some money aside, and in my head that was for this
project. And when that run run out, you know, it was over, I
guess. So this was this was a bet on the project working? And
if the money if the money ran out that was that, I guess.
Konrad: All right. Well, if you take someone on the percentage,
then you may you're like sure that they will be very involved
in that they believe in the project itself. And I'm
committed.
Carlini8: Yeah, and artists who will be working on it more than
right, can you make this 10k PFP. For me, and then when it's
done, that's done. But if the artist is in, they could make
the 10k PFP. And then they could start work on some marketing
materials, go on Twitter, and then they can start working on
your secondary products or just, you know, fun stuff where your
your profile picture project is in a scene and build up the law
because they truly believe in the project because that in the
projects is it's just a lot better that way.
Konrad: All right. So I'm trying to recap for our listeners. So
to find an artist, you suggest going to Instagram and then
search for a specific hashtag. Do you maybe have a short
example of a hash tag?
Carlini8: Well, it depends what you're you're going for. I was
looking for a H fans and artists this way not not for our project
but for something specific within the project. And I think
it was building art because I was looking for sort of
landscape and that sort of thread. So every you know, like
if you're if you're doing a seal project You know, try just
hashtag art and look at the reasons, but maybe CLR, PT or
animal art, or I don't know if those hashtags are real, you
know, just just get a bit creative around what you're
looking at, for the artists to do. All right, and you should be
able to find it.
Konrad: Like just a quick tip, if you if you want one profile,
you can just press the arrow button next to the Follow
button, and it will have a drop down of similar profiles. So
like, you will have suggested similar ones. Smart move, Konrad
Carlini8: did not know that. I live in Instagram noob.
Valerio: All right, and then have you your pitch message
ready and send them a nice pitch and stuff. What about devs
though? I mean, I assume web three depths or like the, like
the web three job with the highest demand, but the low
supply? Am I right?
Carlini8: It's very much seems that way. I've seen a couple
people claiming on Twitter that it's good community managers are
really? And I guess that's, that's hard to quantify, because
they're very much saying good. So, you know, what does? What
does that mean? You know, people will have fun. Yeah, exactly.
Valerio: So if you had to go and find, like, one, a web three dev
right now and a community manager now, what would you do
it? And? And yeah,
Carlini8: I think I would try and pull a community manager
from a community I was already in. So an active discord that
I'm in, I would try looking for. I think I just already know, by
being in the, in the discords. A couple of people who I think
have the potential to do the job well. And I'd I'd I'd kind of
rank them and speak to them in that order, I guess. Dev YT Dev.
I, I just I just knew one. That's it. That's my problem. I
I knew a dev who I think I was in a discord with them. And I
was saying like, I'm trying to find a web 3 Dev, it's really
hard, not sort of fishing, but just sort of in general. And
they were like, I could try it. I was like, Okay, you think so?
So yeah, it would be hard. I'll just read some contracts and go
from there. And they basically just read loads of contracts and
got used to the language and figured it all out.
Konrad: We have two tabs. But I guess like, GitHub is big for
for devs. write or read it and because I heard some people just
you know, post on Reddit or go to communities on Reddit. And
that's but yeah. And if you know, a specific thing you would
do right now to get the depth. You can tell it if not.
Carlini8: I'd asked my dad if he knew any devs, because he's a
dev. B, and here's the issue is he's not really motivated by
money. He's motivated by enjoying his job. So maybe I
could convince him to do it. Such that he just doesn't care
about NFTs enough. But I could ask him to find me a dev from
work or something like that, or from a past job. Who's a good
Dev, you know? And so obviously, that doesn't, if your listeners
want to call my dad his numbers, oh seven.
Konrad: Because when you said that you need a web 2 dev and to
learn like to make him learn solidity. It sounds like super
hard task. Because what do you say like you approach him and
say, Hey, I'm gonna build this project, I need you for it.
Like, all you have to do is learn solidity and that's it.
It's possible.
Carlini8: To us it sounds really hard. But from from the devs
have spoken to that have learned it, they've said it's not too
tricky. Like if, if they're generally a good Dev, I think
they should be able to make the basic leap that you need to
launch a project, they should be able to do that quite easily. If
you're there
Konrad: well, it's it's smiley, or is it dimension division,
Carlini8: everyone will be different, but over the same way
as the artists that try and get them properly in, you know, to
to join your vision. You're going to need a reason for this
project. Like what are you doing differently that is going to you
know, why? Why why are people going to care about your
project, you need to convince them that you can actually mint
out and get the funds to make this into a proper job.
Valerio: All right, cool. I see. Thank you. Carlini. I think that
was some some fire advice for are all our listeners very, very
valuable? The last thing before we let you go? It's something I
always love to talk about. What Why do you like? I mean, you
talked about Bitcoin first, right? And how you like it? How
we prefer a few than Bitcoin because you can build
applications or you can build stuff on Ethereum. But how
what's what's your point of view on the topic of
decentralization? Because that's something that I am concerned.
And that's also what I focus a lot. And decentralization is
important for me, right? And bitcoin is just way more
decentralized than Ethereum, for example, so that's why I'm a
little bit I mean, of course, Ethereum 2.0 is coming out and
the merge will be great. And, and but how do you see the point
of decentralization that if you're young guys, the boys from
the foundation are holding almost 70% of the tokens and
stuff? And, I mean, we just went from proof of work to proof of
stake right? Like that,
Carlini8: to me, it's a level of scale. Like decentralization
isn't yes or no. Like. Bitcoin is more decentralized, but it
isn't completely decentralized because someone can set up it's
just a matter of tech right? If you have enough mining power, it
Bitcoin isn't decentralized, because you have enough to 51%
attack or whatever. It's just a different level to Ethereum it
is more decentralized. But for me, I'm not personally too
worried because it is Ethereum is far more decentralized than
Solana what we already have, yeah. Well, Solana is just a
Google spreadsheet in my mind. So it's, it's about as
decentralized as the, you know, my my organizational
spreadsheets? Unless Sam you're listening and you want to invest
in PCC, then it's the most decentralized token in the world
is the best and I love it. If you're not it's No, I, you know,
I'm very surface level on Solana and the surface level seems to
be it turns off all the time, and it runs on about four PCs.
But for me, Ethereum is decentralized enough. And I
guess what I care about more is the stuff on it. So you can read
everything is open source? Well, most things that people interact
with are open source, and they can be checked. And you have
people like quit going through contracts, when they're launched
and telling everyone what's in them. And it's, it's that level
of openness, that is more important to me, because that
will matter. To the users like what we're doing is changing
everyday life in a more simple way. Whereas Bitcoin, I guess,
you could argue, will have a huge effect, because it depends
how, you know, doom and gloom, er, and the whole economy of the
world. But if you're not on that side of the scale, if if that
isn't a huge worry for you, which you know, people like you,
it should be your main worry. For me, you know, personally, I
don't think it will get there, I'm sure you know, will be sent
laser links and do your own research and all this stuff
about how I should have hundreds of Bitcoin because the world's
going going to hell. But I guess living in my nicer, happier
bubble, of where, where we don't think governments are trying to
kill us off in a great reset. The fact is, we can't scam each
other as easily on Ethereum in more everyday life. So Ethereum
is more decentralized than what we have now. So it is better.
And I It doesn't matter to me that there's something even more
decentralized because you can't do stuff with it, I guess.
Valerio: All right. All right. I mean, I think it's big on film.
They have two different use cases. I mean, exactly. Yeah.
Carlini8: They don't they're not competing in any way.
Valerio: Exactly. We cannot put them we cannot compare them and
try to make them compete each other. I mean,
Carlini8: coingecko and that's about it.
Valerio: Exactly. All right. Yeah. Cool. Thank you so much,
Konrad. Do you have any questions?
Konrad: Still, now I've asked all the ones to ask. So yeah,
thank you very much Carlini for joining us today. It was a
pleasure talking to
Carlini8: No problem. Thanks for having me on.
Konrad: It was an amazing podcast man. It was super super
insightful and valuable and I'm sure the community can can learn
a lot from from what you share.